2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[xReVo]

I'm still not convinced about them this year considering the way they seemed to be still chasing shadows with their upgrade packages at the end of last year.

I wasn't convinced by their updates either, even at the end of the year. This does not mean that they have more or less reiterated several times that they were updates especially with a view to 2024, consequently this turns everything upside down. Those updates don't work in the amr23 but could potentially work fine for the amr24. We'll wait and see, also it must be said that the AMR23 brought some gems to the track, first of all the extreme excavation of the benches then copied by McLaren and which made their fortune. Consequently we have to trust, then if they make a mistake with the car this year I will be the first to be disappointed, but for now I remain optimistic

[KimiRai]

The first thing to think about is to do better than the previous year

and I think (and hope) that Aston Martin thinks like me, also because Alonso still doesn't have many years to race in F1.

alonso and Krack agree with you. The team has to become stronger and more efficient these two seasons ahead of us regardless of 2026.

Alonso: “So if next year we do a step backwards that will be bad. We need to keep moving forward.

“We finished fifth in the Constructors’, we need to improve that next year. Fourth, third, second or whatever, will be welcome.

Krack: “You have to focus on the areas that make the performance, and this is where no team is stopping.

“You have to keep developing these departments, make them better, stronger, and more efficient.”

[organic]

I agree with everything they've said in the off-season. It all sounds reflective, realistic but positive. The major concern that I cannot let go of no matter what they now say is that I'm unsure how they could have been designing and developing the 2024 car with well-informed decisions when we look at what they were doing right at the end of the year with struggling to get their 2023 car to work which they should have tons of data for..

They will have made many of the major decisions for 2024 before the AMR23 had any issues and much of the maturation of the design before they seemed to get a grasp on the problems at the end of 2023

[KimiRai]

I agree with everything they've said in the off-season. It all sounds reflective, realistic but positive. The major concern that I cannot let go of no matter what they now say is that I'm unsure how they could have been designing and developing the 2024 car with well-informed decisions when we look at what they were doing right at the end of the year with struggling to get their 2023 car to work which they should have tons of data for..

They will have made many of the major decisions for 2024 before the AMR23 had any issues and much of the maturation of the design before they seemed to get a grasp on the problems at the end of 2023

That is a fair point.

I know it's two different teams with different people who work differently so I'm not sure it's a correct comparison to make, but looking at McLaren in the recent past, we know they realised too late about a better development direction which resulted in their initial car being disappointing until improvements came later during the season. This is a possible scenario for Aston in 2024 in the case it was too late for them as well. But that happened to McLaren during the winter, if I'm not mistaken.

If we assume that Aston sorted out their issues and found a way through some of the later 2023 races (it's not a given), perhaps during October with the Austin/Mexico experiments and where the ultimately successful combination of parts for Brazil was chosen, it may not have been too late for the AMR24 even with it having already started.

Comments such as Barretto's suggesting that the 2024 car looks "very different to its predecessor on the outside" could indicate that it has already been influenced by those learnings.

[-wkst-]

"Real" teams win immediately?

Well, someone should tell this RBR, when they started in 2005, or when Mercedes returned in 2010...

Ferrari is the only team in the last 20-30 years, who had the facilities, the manpower and money to only think about winning.

Fact is that only the first step is done at AMR (money and investments in manpower, although this is an ongoing thing). Second step will be completed this year with the state of the art facility. Third step will be only completed in 2026 with their works partnership with Honda.

Mercedes won a few races in the three-year period 2010-13 and wanted to leave F1, then they made the regulations in his favor to make him stay and we all know how it went. RB is a can company and in any case already after 4 years it risked winning the world championship (if it hadn't been for Brawn GP). Real teams want to win immediately and 2nd place for them means being the first of the losers. Look at Mercedes who judged the w13 and w14 to be failures despite numerous podiums, Ferrari the same thing. You can't expect to think about 2026, it's an excuse, you don't even know what your rivals will be like and above all how Honda will have adapted. It is the same mentality that led to the failure of Renault, which had set itself the goal of 5 years to win and to progress slowly, was asphalted by Aston Martin and McLaren, creating problems within the team. The first thing to think about is to do better than the previous year, consequently aiming for victory right away and I think (and hope) that Aston Martin thinks like me, also because Alonso still doesn't have many years to race in F1.

1)
Mercedes won 1 race in their third year (what AMR could have done in their third year with ALO in Monaco too). 3 in their fourth year. Although they were able to take over a better infrastructure than Lawrence Stroll

2)
RBR is a can company? Ok, Lawrence Stroll is a salesman. Cant see the big difference.

3)
I am speaking of 2026 because it's the first year, where the infrastructure and works partnership is fully ready. Currently they are way to dependend on Mercedes (PU,whole rear and gearbox), which you can't discuss away.

4)
I never said that I don't expect at least as good results as last year, or even better. I only believe that with their current structure, being a constant winner in F1 is simply not possible, 0% possiblity. Many podiums, some wins the next two years, establish yourself at the top and when everything is ready - fight for the championship.

[diffuser]

I agree with everything they've said in the off-season. It all sounds reflective, realistic but positive. The major concern that I cannot let go of no matter what they now say is that I'm unsure how they could have been designing and developing the 2024 car with well-informed decisions when we look at what they were doing right at the end of the year with struggling to get their 2023 car to work which they should have tons of data for..

They will have made many of the major decisions for 2024 before the AMR23 had any issues and much of the maturation of the design before they seemed to get a grasp on the problems at the end of 2023

I understand what you're saying and have those concerns too....

In a same aero regs year, most people don't do any serious work on the new car before the summer break. Safe to say they knew about the new rear suspension and gearbox changes up coming before they did anything to do with that part of the car. Almost all the parts they brought after the summer break, they said, were for 2024 car. They probably already had a mock up of new rear suspension and gearbox in the wind tunnel at that time. Meaning, the parts they brought to the 2023 car had to be adjusted to fit..... So "the expectations" of those parts on the 2023 required extrapolation which we're not privy too.


I think we have so few facts on what AMR performance might be like in comparison to other in 2024 that it's like try to map the whole sky based on 1 star. Obviously, I would have preferred to be in McLaren's senario rather than AMRs.

[peewon]

I agree with everything they've said in the off-season. It all sounds reflective, realistic but positive. The major concern that I cannot let go of no matter what they now say is that I'm unsure how they could have been designing and developing the 2024 car with well-informed decisions when we look at what they were doing right at the end of the year with struggling to get their 2023 car to work which they should have tons of data for..

They will have made many of the major decisions for 2024 before the AMR23 had any issues and much of the maturation of the design before they seemed to get a grasp on the problems at the end of 2023

For me the biggest red flag has been the way they have addressed the underperformance throughout. During the season, first they blamed sprint races. That they had no time to set up the car with the new updates. Okay, Mclaren brought their major upgrade at a sprint weekend, got it to work immediately. They blamed the new tyres. Same for everyone. Said some of the tracks didn't suit their car's characteristics. Were nowhere in Singapore which was supposed to suit their car.

After the season, Fallows blamed an aggressive in-season development strategy which to me is worrisome on multiple levels. One, other teams like Mclaren, Mercedes and even Ferrari to some extent, undertook massive overhauls to their cars, much more drastic than anything AM did and still gained more performance. Two, AM had serious fundamental deficiencies since the beginning of the season (high speed corners, straight line speed/drag) and did not bring any significant updates to the car till Canada to address those. So I dont even think they had a more aggressive development plan compared to the rest. Fallows has also publicly stated frustration at the rules in interviews multiple times. Neither of these things suggest that AM are sitting on some deign ideas and solutions for next season which would gain them massive performance. They would need a similar jump to last season to have a chance at the front again imo.

You contrast that with how Mercedes and Mclaren responded to their underperformance at the start of the season and you notice a stark contrast. Mclaren knew the exact timeline to get back to the front, so seemingly knew precisely where they went wrong. Same with Mercedes. Russell was very specific in an interview when he said their floor needed to be better when everyone was focused on the sidepods. Mercedes had to live with certain design/chassis decisions for the whole season so they couldnt do every change they wanted but still made significant progress.

While anything is possible, I think its more likely that the trick AM found with their front wing masked some fundamental deficits in the car. I expect them to be around Alpine and Alpha Tauri at the start of the season, and would consider them having done well if they can stay ahead of them by the end.

[issey]

I agree with everything they've said in the off-season. It all sounds reflective, realistic but positive. The major concern that I cannot let go of no matter what they now say is that I'm unsure how they could have been designing and developing the 2024 car with well-informed decisions when we look at what they were doing right at the end of the year with struggling to get their 2023 car to work which they should have tons of data for..

They will have made many of the major decisions for 2024 before the AMR23 had any issues and much of the maturation of the design before they seemed to get a grasp on the problems at the end of 2023

For me the biggest red flag has been the way they have addressed the underperformance throughout. During the season, first they blamed sprint races. That they had no time to set up the car with the new updates. Okay, Mclaren brought their major upgrade at a sprint weekend, got it to work immediately. They blamed the new tyres. Same for everyone. Said some of the tracks didn't suit their car's characteristics. Were nowhere in Singapore which was supposed to suit their car.

After the season, Fallows blamed an aggressive in-season development strategy which to me is worrisome on multiple levels. One, other teams like Mclaren, Mercedes and even Ferrari to some extent, undertook massive overhauls to their cars, much more drastic than anything AM did and still gained more performance. Two, AM had serious fundamental deficiencies since the beginning of the season (high speed corners, straight line speed/drag) and did not bring any significant updates to the car till Canada to address those. So I dont even think they had a more aggressive development plan compared to the rest. Fallows has also publicly stated frustration at the rules in interviews multiple times. Neither of these things suggest that AM are sitting on some deign ideas and solutions for next season which would gain them massive performance. They would need a similar jump to last season to have a chance at the front again imo.

You contrast that with how Mercedes and Mclaren responded to their underperformance at the start of the season and you notice a stark contrast. Mclaren knew the exact timeline to get back to the front, so seemingly knew precisely where they went wrong. Same with Mercedes. Russell was very specific in an interview when he said their floor needed to be better when everyone was focused on the sidepods. Mercedes had to live with certain design/chassis decisions for the whole season so they couldnt do every change they wanted but still made significant progress.

While anything is possible, I think its more likely that the trick AM found with their front wing masked some fundamental deficits in the car. I expect them to be around Alpine and Alpha Tauri at the start of the season, and would consider them having done well if they can stay ahead of them by the end.

First of all nobody complained or blamed anything I don’t know where you read that…And Aston Martin’s performance slump wasn’t because of a "banned" or too flexible front wing, they used this front-wing sometimes in the free practice sessions of some race weekends after it was reported that it was "banned". Abu Dhabi was also one them if I remember right. There wasn’t any "trick" with the front wing. Coming to your "Neither of these things suggest that AM are sitting on some deign ideas and solutions for next season which would gain them massive performance", Aston Martin hired a lot of stuff in the past from Red Bull and Mercedes but they couldn’t work on the base of the AMR23 because when they arrived the AMR23 stood already. All of the ideas that this engineers from Red Bull and Mercedes had including Dan Fallows and Eric Blandin couldn’t be made during the season. 2024 is the first year where the AMR24 is made completely from scratch from Dan Fallows, Eric Blandin and all the Red Bull and Mercedes Staff they recently signed.

Lawrence Barretto:

"Sources say the 2024 [Aston Martin] car looks very different to its predecessor on the outside, with a plethora of changes under the skin and away from prying eyes, too."

Doesn't that sound logical after what I've wrote here?

[-wkst-]

I agree with everything they've said in the off-season. It all sounds reflective, realistic but positive. The major concern that I cannot let go of no matter what they now say is that I'm unsure how they could have been designing and developing the 2024 car with well-informed decisions when we look at what they were doing right at the end of the year with struggling to get their 2023 car to work which they should have tons of data for..

They will have made many of the major decisions for 2024 before the AMR23 had any issues and much of the maturation of the design before they seemed to get a grasp on the problems at the end of 2023

For me the biggest red flag has been the way they have addressed the underperformance throughout. During the season, first they blamed sprint races. That they had no time to set up the car with the new updates. Okay, Mclaren brought their major upgrade at a sprint weekend, got it to work immediately. They blamed the new tyres. Same for everyone. Said some of the tracks didn't suit their car's characteristics. Were nowhere in Singapore which was supposed to suit their car.

After the season, Fallows blamed an aggressive in-season development strategy which to me is worrisome on multiple levels. One, other teams like Mclaren, Mercedes and even Ferrari to some extent, undertook massive overhauls to their cars, much more drastic than anything AM did and still gained more performance. Two, AM had serious fundamental deficiencies since the beginning of the season (high speed corners, straight line speed/drag) and did not bring any significant updates to the car till Canada to address those. So I dont even think they had a more aggressive development plan compared to the rest. Fallows has also publicly stated frustration at the rules in interviews multiple times. Neither of these things suggest that AM are sitting on some deign ideas and solutions for next season which would gain them massive performance. They would need a similar jump to last season to have a chance at the front again imo.

You contrast that with how Mercedes and Mclaren responded to their underperformance at the start of the season and you notice a stark contrast. Mclaren knew the exact timeline to get back to the front, so seemingly knew precisely where they went wrong. Same with Mercedes. Russell was very specific in an interview when he said their floor needed to be better when everyone was focused on the sidepods. Mercedes had to live with certain design/chassis decisions for the whole season so they couldnt do every change they wanted but still made significant progress.

While anything is possible, I think its more likely that the trick AM found with their front wing masked some fundamental deficits in the car. I expect them to be around Alpine and Alpha Tauri at the start of the season, and would consider them having done well if they can stay ahead of them by the end.

First of all nobody complained or blamed anything I don’t know where you read that…And Aston Martin’s performance slump wasn’t because of a "banned" or too flexible front wing, they used this front-wing sometimes in the free practice sessions of some race weekends after it was reported that it was "banned". Abu Dhabi was also one them if I remember right. There wasn’t any "trick" with the front wing.

I also don't think that their front wing was the secret for success in the first half of the season, but it is not true that it was used in FP sessions after Monaco. Only in Abu Dhabi at the post season test.


Personally I find it great that people underestimate AMR currently, although I fear that's only fans. Wolff or Horner very well know what Stroll is developing their.

[xReVo]

I agree with everything they've said in the off-season. It all sounds reflective, realistic but positive. The major concern that I cannot let go of no matter what they now say is that I'm unsure how they could have been designing and developing the 2024 car with well-informed decisions when we look at what they were doing right at the end of the year with struggling to get their 2023 car to work which they should have tons of data for..

They will have made many of the major decisions for 2024 before the AMR23 had any issues and much of the maturation of the design before they seemed to get a grasp on the problems at the end of 2023

For me the biggest red flag has been the way they have addressed the underperformance throughout. During the season, first they blamed sprint races. That they had no time to set up the car with the new updates. Okay, Mclaren brought their major upgrade at a sprint weekend, got it to work immediately. They blamed the new tyres. Same for everyone. Said some of the tracks didn't suit their car's characteristics. Were nowhere in Singapore which was supposed to suit their car.

After the season, Fallows blamed an aggressive in-season development strategy which to me is worrisome on multiple levels. One, other teams like Mclaren, Mercedes and even Ferrari to some extent, undertook massive overhauls to their cars, much more drastic than anything AM did and still gained more performance. Two, AM had serious fundamental deficiencies since the beginning of the season (high speed corners, straight line speed/drag) and did not bring any significant updates to the car till Canada to address those. So I dont even think they had a more aggressive development plan compared to the rest. Fallows has also publicly stated frustration at the rules in interviews multiple times. Neither of these things suggest that AM are sitting on some deign ideas and solutions for next season which would gain them massive performance. They would need a similar jump to last season to have a chance at the front again imo.

You contrast that with how Mercedes and Mclaren responded to their underperformance at the start of the season and you notice a stark contrast. Mclaren knew the exact timeline to get back to the front, so seemingly knew precisely where they went wrong. Same with Mercedes. Russell was very specific in an interview when he said their floor needed to be better when everyone was focused on the sidepods. Mercedes had to live with certain design/chassis decisions for the whole season so they couldnt do every change they wanted but still made significant progress.

While anything is possible, I think its more likely that the trick AM found with their front wing masked some fundamental deficits in the car. I expect them to be around Alpine and Alpha Tauri at the start of the season, and would consider them having done well if they can stay ahead of them by the end.

You all forget what amr23 was. In your opinion, do people who don't know how to make cars or who don't have ideas design a car capable of achieving that kind of performance at the start of the world championship? I do not think so. Rather, I think (and I hope this is the case) that the updates that arrived later were with a view to 2024 and that they worked well for this year's car. They have changed the AMR23 flows compared to the beginning of the season, it's not just a question of banning the front wing, look at the bottom, the bellies etc. We'll see this year what they'll be able to do, I don't understand your exasperated pessimism.

[KimiRai]

One thing is for sure: Aston got Alonso smiling. It's been many many years since I've seen him so happy, thanks to joining this team. Whatever the future holds I will be grateful to them for having achieved it.

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

Stroll also in action

[AR3-GP]

Stroll Jnr. has been hibernating...

[KimiRai]

Stroll Jnr. has been hibernating...

Will the universe stop working in mysterious ways this season?
Whatever it wanted to prove last season was done already, let's hope that was the end of it.

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

Some AMR24 and Team news.
https://amp.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... UShPC.html
and
https://www.planetf1.com/news/aston-mar ... uild-plans