2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

[FittingMechanics]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

I do think he is right. I would understand the move if he was in a team that has no realistic chance to challenge (for example Alpha Tauri), but McLaren has a chance to improve and if that happens, he is in prime position to capitalize on it.

Moving to Red Bull could end up that he struggles until he gets up to speed, that may take a year or two and who knows if Red Bull wouldn't discard him by that time or if Red Bull would be top car in that time.

[the EDGE]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

However good you are, you need the teams full support to win a championship, and I think (quite rightly so) Lando feels that he's only ever going to be treated as a number 2 driver at RB, as long as Max there.

In McLaren, Lando's got that support. He may not have a clear no1 status like Max enjoys, but it's definitely his team. For now anyway

Maybe if Max moves on then Lando would consider the move, if McLaren aren't giving him the machinery he needs, but for now & the foreseeable future McLaren is the right choice for him

[FittingMechanics]

However good you are, you need the teams full support to win a championship, and I think (quite rightly so) Lando feels that he's only ever going to be treated as a number 2 driver at RB, as long as Max there.

In McLaren, Lando's got that support. He may not have a clear no1 status like Max enjoys, but it's definitely his team. For now anyway

Maybe if Max moves on then Lando would consider the move, if McLaren aren't giving him the machinery he needs, but for now & the foreseeable future McLaren is the right choice for him

Plus in that interview with Sky, Lando explained one of his reasons as being he wants to write his own story in McLaren. It's a bigger accomplishment if you become a world champion by helping rebuild a team than it is to just get into the fastest car.

Romantic idea but I think he's comfortable here and trajectory seems good.

[the EDGE]

However good you are, you need the teams full support to win a championship, and I think (quite rightly so) Lando feels that he's only ever going to be treated as a number 2 driver at RB, as long as Max there.

In McLaren, Lando's got that support. He may not have a clear no1 status like Max enjoys, but it's definitely his team. For now anyway

Maybe if Max moves on then Lando would consider the move, if McLaren aren't giving him the machinery he needs, but for now & the foreseeable future McLaren is the right choice for him

Plus in that interview with Sky, Lando explained one of his reasons as being he wants to write his own story in McLaren. It's a bigger accomplishment if you become a world champion by helping rebuild a team than it is to just get into the fastest car.

Romantic idea but I think he's comfortable here and trajectory seems good.

Very good point...

I've said it before, but i'll say it again... I swear if you cut Lando (please don't try this) he bleeds sweet Papaya, he was a McLaren fan growing up and he's now living his (and our) dreams. It will take a lot to separate the two of them, and you/he is absolutely right, Being the man who returns McLaren to their winning ways will be very very special to us all

[mwillems]

I totally agree. My opinion of the risk to Lando from a move to Red Bull has been clear over the past 2 years and I think I stated several times, it will not happen anytime soon for the reasons outlined.

Here's praying for Lando to win the championship. Sorry Oscar, you're fantastic, but I'm British!

[AR3-GP]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

[Emag]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

I respect Vettel as a driver, because really, any 4x WDC deserves nothing less. But the majority of the fanbase as well as members of paddock never rated Vettel as high as they have the likes of Lewis, Max and to be honest, even Alonso who statistically is quite a way back.

So yeah, Leclerc beating Vettel when he jumped to Ferrari was impressive, but I feel like it doesn't hold the same "oomph" as any driver jumping into RB right now and beating (or heck, even challenging) Max. He is an exceptional talent who at this point is pretty much the ultimate well-oiled machine together with a record-breaking car he seems to be the only one able to tame it.

I honestly believe no driver can jump into RB right now and be on Max's level from the get go, not even Lewis. And I fully agree with Lando here, that in order to beat Max, you have to do it by building up your own team. Because it's not happening if you go and join Max's team.

[the EDGE]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Yer but to be fair too,

Nobody has ever rated Vettel as good as Max is now, especially when LeClerc moved to Ferrari, nor Rosberg.

That aside, LeClerc was driving for Sauber, not McLaren. He was also a Ferrari Academy. He didn't have a choice in his move for both of these reasons.

Hamilton saw the writing on the wall at McLaren, why would he have stayed there, or gone anywhere else?

[AR3-GP]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Yer but to be fair too,

Nobody has ever rated Vettel as good as Max is now, especially when LeClerc moved to Ferrari, nor Rosberg.

That aside, LeClerc was driving for Sauber, not McLaren. He was also a Ferrari Academy. He didn't have a choice in his move for both of these reasons.

Hamilton saw the writing on the wall at McLaren, why would he have stayed there, or gone anywhere else?

I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here. I understand that Leclerc going to Ferrari was a formality, but my point was that Leclerc proved the incumbent advantage isn't so decisive as long as the talent is there. Leclerc has very reason to cry foul publically about his teammates being favored (Singapore '19, Silverstone '22, Monaco '22, etc) but he didn't because he knew he had the pace in his back pocket and thus, the mental high ground. The mental high ground (i.e I'm the faster driver) is a very powerful thing to have in the pocket.

Regarding Hamilton, my point is again not about the decision, but about how Hamilton made incumbent teammate advantage irrelevant by defeating Rosberg straight away. Hamilton went to the German national team with the German driver and won. He even complained that they were favoring Rosberg.

Lando's talked about avoiding RB because of how comfortable Verstappen was at RB and how the team was built around him but Leclerc and Hamilton showed that talent is the only thing that matters. If Norris thought he was the better driver or that his teammate was only going to be Perez, he would be saying goodbye to Mclaren. It suggest he is worried that the confrontation would not show him in the best light. Why else would you turn down an offer to drive the best car?

[mendis]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Post 2018 RB cars have a notorious reputation. The cars have become extreme on the balance side and Max has evolved into adapting to the traits more than anyone else. Lando is friends with Albon and he probably has learnt from him about these traits. If it was a case of RB building W11 type of cars which are smooth and fits every driver, then Lando would make a jump, but with the kind of reputation the RB cars have, it's not easy for anyone, even the Max of the past to get in those cars and beat Max of today. That's how I read the difficulty of any talented driver going to RB. On top of that, I don't think RB would change the traits of the car if results are coming, only to make another driver comfortable. I am sure those are definite things Lando would have calculated.

[AR3-GP]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Post 2018 RB cars have a notorious reputation. The cars have become extreme on the balance side and Max has evolved into adapting to the traits more than anyone else. Lando is friends with Albon and he probably has learnt from him about these traits. If it was a case of RB building W11 type of cars which are smooth and fits every driver, then Lando would make a jump, but with the kind of reputation the RB cars have, it's not easy for anyone, even the Max of the past to get in those cars and beat Max of today. That's how I read the difficulty of any talented driver going to RB. On top of that, I don't think RB would change the traits of the car if results are coming, only to make another driver comfortable. I am sure those are definite things Lando would have calculated.

Fair, but then will Lando stay at Mclaren for the rest of his career even if they never build a car that is fast enough? How long will these calculations hold, if RB continues to be the best team?

[mendis]

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Post 2018 RB cars have a notorious reputation. The cars have become extreme on the balance side and Max has evolved into adapting to the traits more than anyone else. Lando is friends with Albon and he probably has learnt from him about these traits. If it was a case of RB building W11 type of cars which are smooth and fits every driver, then Lando would make a jump, but with the kind of reputation the RB cars have, it's not easy for anyone, even the Max of the past to get in those cars and beat Max of today. That's how I read the difficulty of any talented driver going to RB. On top of that, I don't think RB would change the traits of the car if results are coming, only to make another driver comfortable. I am sure those are definite things Lando would have calculated.

Fair, but then will Lando stay at Mclaren for the rest of his career even if they never build a car that is fast enough? How long will these calculations hold, if RB continues to be the best team?

Lewis was desperate to go to Red Bull, but couldn't and as an escape from McLaren he signed Mercedes. That turned out to be the luckiest move for a driver ever. Similar things might happen to Lando too and for that matter, Charles too. They might get lucky in their own teams. To be honest, I would have liked either Lando or Charles to sign Red Bull if there was an offer on the table. Unfortunately that isn't happening anytime soon, but I think I see the reasons.

As an aside, it just shows how much an ordinary fan would undermine the ability of Max as a fundamental ingredient for Red Bull to be successful. It makes for serious considerations for other talented drivers.

[the EDGE]

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Yer but to be fair too,

Nobody has ever rated Vettel as good as Max is now, especially when LeClerc moved to Ferrari, nor Rosberg.

That aside, LeClerc was driving for Sauber, not McLaren. He was also a Ferrari Academy. He didn't have a choice in his move for both of these reasons.

Hamilton saw the writing on the wall at McLaren, why would he have stayed there, or gone anywhere else?

I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here. I understand that Leclerc going to Ferrari was a formality, but my point was that Leclerc proved the incumbent advantage isn't so decisive as long as the talent is there. Leclerc has very reason to cry foul publically about his teammates being favored (Singapore '19, Silverstone '22, Monaco '22, etc) but he didn't because he knew he had the pace in his back pocket and thus, the mental high ground. The mental high ground (i.e I'm the faster driver) is a very powerful thing to have in the pocket.

Regarding Hamilton, my point is again not about the decision, but about how Hamilton made incumbent teammate advantage irrelevant by defeating Rosberg straight away. Hamilton went to the German national team with the German driver and won. He even complained that they were favoring Rosberg.

Lando's talked about avoiding RB because of how comfortable Verstappen was at RB and how the team was built around him but Leclerc and Hamilton showed that talent is the only thing that matters. If Norris thought he was the better driver or that his teammate was only going to be Perez, he would be saying goodbye to Mclaren. It suggest he is worried that the confrontation would not show him in the best light. Why else would you turn down an offer to drive the best car?

Yes you are correct, from a purely 'car' point of view, RB is currently everybody's best chance to win the championship, but when you factor in Max, those chances decrease dramatically, and McLaren may actually offer better odds of winning the WDC for him, even if it's still a long-shot, for now anyway.

But I just think there are factors that give Max an advantage over anyone who was to move to be his team mate, because of things like his knowledge of the team & the car, his standing within the team etc. that go beyond just Max's ability, that Lando would factor in. It might not just be that he's warey of Max's talent.

Nor, i would assume, does Lando want to find himself in a position that Nico found himself in either when inter-teammate rivalry made him quit F1, & destroyed his long friendship with Lewis

All of these thing would have been in his mind somewhere, but I still say his ultimate reason he choose to re-sign so early came down to that aforementioned Papaya blood of his

[mwillems]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Max is one of the best ever. We can wipe Rosberg from this conversation straight away as Hamilton was a previous World Champion and had beaten Alonso in his debut season and Rosberg had not achieved anything yet in F1.

In terms of Vettel, he was already fallible from his loss to Daniel largely for the reasons that people say here, he wasn't so good in a car that didn't suit him. Leclerc at the time was not in the standing of a title contender either, so time would always be afforded to him. Particularly as he would have known he was in a family and not a cutthroat racing operation. He would have been nurtured and protected at Ferrari as they saw him as the future.

At RB, it is a different story. it doesn't matter who you are. Perform or lose your seat. You can be in the RB family for as long as you like, you won't get sentiment next to Max from anyone, least of all Helmut or Max. And Lando would not be on a small salary, so he's not getting any kid gloves and gentle settling in time.

Anyway, I don't think they were going to sign Lando, I think the two salaries would be unpalatable for RB, I suspect they just want to help drive his price up and create a pressure for Mclaren. I don't think they'd want to pay off Checo and pay Lando's much bigger salary either, I think it was all Guff from RB just to get the spoon in and see what stirs.

I do think Ferrari would be a better fit for Lando, as would Merc, as I said last year...

So I agree about RBR and I don't think that Lando would go because it is a career halting move if it fails. Kiss goodbye to any chances of getting another tilt at the title any time soon. I would actually be more concerned about him going to Ferrari or Mercedes because I think he would fancy his chances there.