2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[djos]

I respect Vettel as a driver, because really, any 4x WDC deserves nothing less. But the majority of the fanbase as well as members of paddock never rated Vettel as high as they have the likes of Lewis, Max and to be honest, even Alonso who statistically is quite a way back.

So yeah, Leclerc beating Vettel when he jumped to Ferrari was impressive, but I feel like it doesn't hold the same "oomph" as any driver jumping into RB right now and beating (or heck, even challenging) Max. He is an exceptional talent who at this point is pretty much the ultimate well-oiled machine together with a record-breaking car he seems to be the only one able to tame it.

I honestly believe no driver can jump into RB right now and be on Max's level from the get go, not even Lewis. And I fully agree with Lando here, that in order to beat Max, you have to do it by building up your own team. Because it's not happening if you go and join Max's team.

Agreed, Vettel is quality but to be fair he only won his first title when Mark and Fernando had a shocking last race and he pulled a Bradbury!

The rest of his tiles were thanks to Newey getting the blown diffuser working all the way through the corner, before that Mark was generally faster than he was.

And then when the blown diffuser was banned as part of the V6 hybrid era, Daniel wiped the floor with him.

What's wrong with the guy in the other car who couldn't win in the same machinery?

When Daniel failed in McLaren, it was the car that was the problem, but when Vettel failed in 2014, it's Daniel who beat him.

Using your own analogy, we can say Lando wiped the floor with Daniel.

Funny you should mention that - let’s see what the score board looks like:

Race wins:
Daniel 3 vs Sebastian 0
Daniel 1 vs Lando 0

Despite the Mclaren cars being flawed (according to Lando who publicly demanded it be fixed for 3 straight years), Daniel still has more race wins.

[JordanMugen]

I understand your point of view, but if the only way to see a championship fight is to put another star driver in the 2nd RB seat, but when any star driver is offered the opportunity, he makes the same arguments that Norris has done and is furthermore being applauded for it, then are we not supporting more boring championships?

Well, Norris is not a seer (unless he is!). He doesn't know whether the McLaren-Mercedes or Red Bull-Ford will be more competitive in 2026 and beyond.

He likes the McLaren team and is confident the McLaren-Mercedes can be as or more competitive than Red Bull-Ford in 2026.

Norris would look silly if he went to Red Bull-Ford and he and Verstappen struggled to get top 10s, whilst the McLarens of Piastri and Sainz(?) romped to a dominant WCC victory!

[AR3-GP]

I understand your point of view, but if the only way to see a championship fight is to put another star driver in the 2nd RB seat, but when any star driver is offered the opportunity, he makes the same arguments that Norris has done and is furthermore being applauded for it, then are we not supporting more boring championships?

Well, Norris is not a seer (unless he is!). He doesn't know whether the McLaren-Mercedes or Red Bull-Ford will be more competitive in 2026 and beyond.

He likes the McLaren team and is confident the McLaren-Mercedes can be as or more competitive than Red Bull-Ford in 2026.

Norris would look silly if he went to Red Bull-Ford and he and Verstappen struggled to get top 10s, whilst the McLarens of Piastri and Sainz(?) romped to a dominant WCC victory!

RB has won races in every season since 2009 with the exception of 2015 and this was even with a garbage engine from Renault. Norris doesn't have to be a "seer" (I think you mean oracle ), to know what he's getting with that team. It's not particularly daring to imagine they will be competitive to at least win races in 2026 even if the PU is somehow garbage. That would still be much more than what he's been able to achieve with Mclaren thus far.

[JordanMugen]

Norris doesn't have to be a "seer" (I think you mean oracle )

It's a perfectly cromulent word, thanks! I checked the dictionary and everything.

I'm not sure even Red Bull themselves are confident they will be winning races in 2026. It would seem an act of great hubris for any Grand Prix team to think they will be winning under such a radically new set of regulations.

All they can do is built the best car they can, like Red Bull did in 2022, surely? Their best guess of what the regulations require? The same as for McLaren F1 Team?

McLaren's ability to correct course and now have a car that is truly competitive under the 2022- regulation set is truly impressive.

[AR3-GP]

Norris doesn't have to be a "seer" (I think you mean oracle )

It's a perfectly cromulent word, thanks! I checked the dictionary and everything.

I'm not sure even Red Bull themselves are confident they will be winning races in 2026. It would seem an act of great hubris for any Grand Prix team to think they will be winning under such a radically new set of regulations.

All they can do is built the best car they can, like Red Bull did in 2022, surely? Their best guess of what the regulations require? The same as for McLaren F1 Team?

McLaren's ability to correct course and now have a car that is truly competitive under the 2022- regulation set is truly impressive.

I’m not saying RB will win races in 2026 but you can be sure that they will find their way by 2027. It’s what they have always done. As I said previously, only in 2015 did RB not win a race since 2009.

Could the same be said of Mclaren? That’s what Norris must live with.

Oh and cromulent? . Excellent word choice.

[propercare]

I’m not saying RB will win races in 2026 but you can be sure that they will find their way by 2027. It’s what they have always done. As I said previously, only in 2015 did RB not win a race since 2009.

There is one important variable that is chaged from 2009, the budget cap. RB had enormous budget that, in a way helped them to be capable to win races (having top enginners, facilities, drivers etc). RB was reaping the benefits of that even last year, having a superior car at the start of the season, work that was started years back. We don't know how the team will operate in the next years following the big regulation changes and bound by budget cap.

McLaren on the other hand had a fantastic in season development within the cap. It might show the agility of the team or was maybe it was a one off thing. (Stella commening that they plan to have the same development rate during season)

I'm sure Norris had some more insight in that before reaching this decision.

[mwillems]

I doubt that, Max drives the wheels off everything given to him.

Lando has no need to go to RB for the reasons he said. Folks discussing the competiveness of the RB car are missing the point.

[mwillems]

Didn't Carlos beat Lando both years on pts by a decent margin

He's talking about as the season went on and seems to be acknowledging that Piastri was indeed pushing him in Qualy and in some races. But there was no suggestion of consistency.

Perhaps he feels that Lando of today would have destroyed Lando of 2019. I suspect he is talking in relative terms not absolute.

[Tomsky]

I doubt that, Max drives the wheels off everything given to him.

every year at the beginning of the season, he rides at the level of Perez. When the car is being modified, he starts to beat Sergio. So far we haven't seen him driving a McLaren or a Ferrari.

[mwillems]

I doubt that, Max drives the wheels off everything given to him.

every year at the beginning of the season, he rides at the level of Perez. When the car is being modified, he starts to beat Sergio. So far we haven't seen him driving a McLaren or a Ferrari.

I think Albon and others already debunked that idea. Start of the season has more tracks that Perez likes too.

RB barely updated last year, and Checo was falling away before updates arrived. Max was ahead of Perez from the first few races of 22 too and in both seasons Max finishing position barely changed.

Seeing that the car worked to Max strength and not that it highlighted Checos lack of adaptability next to Max is a bit of confirmation bias.

But both are reasons why you don't want to be his team mate.

[mwillems]

Duplicate

[djos]

I doubt that, Max drives the wheels off everything given to him.

every year at the beginning of the season, he rides at the level of Perez. When the car is being modified, he starts to beat Sergio. So far we haven't seen him driving a McLaren or a Ferrari.

I think Albon and others already debunked that idea. Start of the season has more tracks that Perez likes too.

RB barely updated last year, and Checo was falling away before updates arrived. Max was ahead of Perez from the first few races of 22 too and in both seasons Max finishing position barely changed.

Seeing that the car worked to Max strength and not that it highlighted Checos lack of adaptability next to Max is a bit of confirmation bias.

But both are reasons why you don't want to be his team mate.

Checo is his own worst enemy, his problems are mostly in his head.

Daniel hadn’t driven the car outside of the simulator and was 1/100th slower than Max on his 9th lap in the car at Silverstone. Checo couldn’t get out of Q1 despite having 2 90 minute practice sessions.

[mwillems]

every year at the beginning of the season, he rides at the level of Perez. When the car is being modified, he starts to beat Sergio. So far we haven't seen him driving a McLaren or a Ferrari.

I think Albon and others already debunked that idea. Start of the season has more tracks that Perez likes too.

RB barely updated last year, and Checo was falling away before updates arrived. Max was ahead of Perez from the first few races of 22 too and in both seasons Max finishing position barely changed.

Seeing that the car worked to Max strength and not that it highlighted Checos lack of adaptability next to Max is a bit of confirmation bias.

But both are reasons why you don't want to be his team mate.

Checo is his own worst enemy, his problems are mostly in his head.

Daniel hadn’t driven the car outside of the simulator and was 1/100th slower than Max on his 9th lap in the car at Silverstone. Checo couldn’t get out of Q1 despite having 2 90 minute practice sessions.

You may well be right, but this only became a problem next to Max I think. The pressure to perform every race can get too much if you have one or two bad races. If this is what happened to Checo then he struggled to recover.

But this is what I have been saying for 18 months or so. To go into Max' team and challenge him you have to be ready mentally, you have to be able to drive any car, you have to perform close to your max every race and you have to deal with Helmut and Max who will not let you hide anywhere. AND you have to break into a setup centred around Max who they love and support as family. Thinking that it is a fast car and therefore the best opportunity of a title misses all of the variables that could well kill someone's career and that risk is categorically not worth it to most, I'd wager not to many arguing the other way too if they were actually in that situation.

It is interesting that Daniel was that quick and yet they are talking about whether Lando would be good next to Max. This backs up my point that RB are playing games to stir things a little for Mclaren but also to court a driver that they may wish to procure if Max ever leaves. It's nothing but political, I highly doubt there ever a space for Lando at RB, which seems to be a running assumption.

[djos]

Teams explore all driver options, that’s just normal F1 - nothing has changed in the 35 years I’ve been following the sport.

[mwillems]

Lando also explicitly stated this himself.

It is the public courting by the team and driver (Max) that I refer to as the stirring the pot.

This conversation is largely because of that without any evidence there was ever a seat.

They could have promoted Ric, given Lawson a seat this year, they didn't. They still can next year. They have no need for Lando right now, they are just keeping their irons in the fire.