2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 08:36
Lamdo is getting a lot of criticisms for apparently not thinking it's wise to go to be Max’s team mate. Meanwhile, he's probably the only top driver honest and open enough to admit that nobody among the top drivers would want Max as a team mate. Lewis can say what he likes, but we know there were small windows of opportunity for Mercedes to sign him, but it never materialised likely due to Lewis’s reluctance. The Red Bull environment is a Max Verstappen kingdom. But Personally, I'd fancy Lando's chances against Max if he were to join McLaren.
I must be oblivious to this criticism of Lando, is this in here, on twitter?

The internet in general is a very polarised place but there are risks associated with going head to head with Max that span beyond just two drivers ability and more to being fast than just having the fastest car (Think having full team support). I think anyone who tends to not understand that and cry "coward" or something similarly polarised/black and white are probably those more of a playground mentality and behaviour, and best ignored as they've nothing constructive to add. I also highly doubt they've never approached anything in their life and then backed out because they were nervous of something, and probably aren't all the brave superheroes they sound like when tapping their keyboards, unless they are wearing their spiderman Pyjamas.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

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mwillems
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 11:27
Ground Effect wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 08:36
Lamdo is getting a lot of criticisms for apparently not thinking it's wise to go to be Max’s team mate. Meanwhile, he's probably the only top driver honest and open enough to admit that nobody among the top drivers would want Max as a team mate. Lewis can say what he likes, but we know there were small windows of opportunity for Mercedes to sign him, but it never materialised likely due to Lewis’s reluctance. The Red Bull environment is a Max Verstappen kingdom. But Personally, I'd fancy Lando's chances against Max if he were to join McLaren.
Indeed, Lando was being honest. Some of the comments Lewis made last year saying he'd happily go up against Max in RB, those are cute but entirely meaningless when everyone knows that was never happening. RB didn't want him and I don't think he wanted to leave Merc.
Yeah totally, it's all talk and in many cases just trying to inflate a drivers contract value. It's perhaps not a coincidence that papers discussing Lando to RB and Verstappen as a team mate came around or just before the time that Lando would have been in contract discussions. That is not a suggestion that Lando instigated it.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Dont take them seriously. Most of them dont even have the knowledge of the matter. They think they do but reality sooner or later will hit them in the face with cold hard facts. Lando Norris is a very fast driver that so far never had a car like Red Bull and yet he got the poles and was close to victory many times. His time will come this year or the next.

On another note now Im hearing that the Red Bull test driver claiming that the opponents of RB have to find a second. If that is true then we need more than a second.

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 14:41
Dont take them seriously. Most of them dont even have the knowledge of the matter. They think they do but reality sooner or later will hit them in the face with cold hard facts. Lando Norris is a very fast driver that so far never had a car like Red Bull and yet he got the poles and was close to victory many times. His time will come this year or the next.

On another note now Im hearing that the Red Bull test driver claiming that the opponents of RB have to find a second. If that is true then we need more than a second.
Is this from an article or word of mouth?

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Im talking in general. Ah you meant the second one. I saw it on an article. Jake Dennis the test driver claims that Red Bull found a second and its gonna be hard for opponents to catch up and predicted a boring year.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/01/ ... 24-dennis/

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franbatista123
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 15:37
Im talking in general. Ah you meant the second one. I saw it on an article. Jake Dennis the test driver claims that Red Bull found a second and its gonna be hard for opponents to catch up and predicted a boring year.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/01/ ... 24-dennis/
That's not quite what Jake Dennis said, he said rivals need to find about a second for rivals to be more or less in a fight with Red Bull.

1 second = delta that RB had in 23 + expected improvement in 24.

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Still I think Jake Dennis is wrong. Mclaren was less than half a second missing from Red Bull so Im not sure where a whole second is coming from unless he implies that Red Bull was holding back speed. In any case I trust Mclaren to find more than a second to get the upper hand even if things go as intended.

taperoo2k
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 11:25
taperoo2k wrote:
28 Jan 2024, 17:33
McLaren have been methodically working their way back up to the top. They have the tools in place and personal to cope with the 2026 regulation changes. Signing a new deal with Mercedes for PU's is a no brainer for McLaren (Brown was being diligent checking out Red Bull PU's). Sure, Red Bull have poached people from Mercedes HPP etc, but the boss of Mercedes HPP is relishing the challenge of the '26 PU regulations. All we've heard from Red Bull is extremely negative comments from Max about the Red Bull PU in the simulator.

Lando might look like a genius in 2026 if McLaren get the aero side of the regulations bang on and Mercedes HPP produces a great PU, while Red Bull is left in the dust with a not so good PU that needs work. But we shall see. I'm looking forward to how the PU's shake out in '26 given the range of manufacturers designing and building PU's for 2026 and beyond.
McLaren seems to be improving, but it's a bit delusional to legitimately think they are in a better position for 26 than RB. Being a customer has inherent disadvantages, the engine freeze has somewhat mitigated those but that will be going away again for 26. And extremely negative comments? I think you misinterpreted what he was saying. Those were not an indictment of their development, more a general critique of how the 2026 engines will operate across the board, with lots of clipping. In terms of development all comments I've read are essentially saying they are on track.
Mclaren are improving, if they can challenge Red Bull in 2024 or 2025 remains to be seen.
As for the 2026 Power Units? I didn't misinterpret what Verstappen said, he was complaining about
something the engine manufacturers have known about for a long time. What Red Bull appears to want is tweaks to the rules to shift the balance in favour of the ICE over the battery. You can either view that as Red Bull haven't got the best hybrid system or they have built an ICE that they feel is ahead of the competition and want to bake an advantage in like Mercedes had with it's split turbo design.

As for McLaren? The advantages a works team has over a customer team isn't as big as it once was due
to the changes the FIA made to engine mapping and so on. If any customer team wins the titles, McLaren currently is the best placed team to do so.


2026 wise? Nobody has a clue what the pecking order will be. Hence Lando sticking with McLaren is a sensible choice, if the deal only runs to 2026, Lando will have options.

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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taperoo2k wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 19:42
Mclaren are improving, if they can challenge Red Bull in 2024 or 2025 remains to be seen.
As for the 2026 Power Units? I didn't misinterpret what Verstappen said, he was complaining about
something the engine manufacturers have known about for a long time. What Red Bull appears to want is tweaks to the rules to shift the balance in favour of the ICE over the battery. You can either view that as Red Bull haven't got the best hybrid system or they have built an ICE that they feel is ahead of the competition and want to bake an advantage in like Mercedes had with it's split turbo design.

As for McLaren? The advantages a works team has over a customer team isn't as big as it once was due
to the changes the FIA made to engine mapping and so on. If any customer team wins the titles, McLaren currently is the best placed team to do so.


2026 wise? Nobody has a clue what the pecking order will be. Hence Lando sticking with McLaren is a sensible choice, if the deal only runs to 2026, Lando will have options.
Hopefully for the good of the sport and the competition to challenge Red Bull from this year and go toe to toe for the championship.

Cs98
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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taperoo2k wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 19:42
Mclaren are improving, if they can challenge Red Bull in 2024 or 2025 remains to be seen.
As for the 2026 Power Units? I didn't misinterpret what Verstappen said, he was complaining about
something the engine manufacturers have known about for a long time. What Red Bull appears to want is tweaks to the rules to shift the balance in favour of the ICE over the battery. You can either view that as Red Bull haven't got the best hybrid system or they have built an ICE that they feel is ahead of the competition and want to bake an advantage in like Mercedes had with it's split turbo design.

As for McLaren? The advantages a works team has over a customer team isn't as big as it once was due
to the changes the FIA made to engine mapping and so on. If any customer team wins the titles, McLaren currently is the best placed team to do so.


2026 wise? Nobody has a clue what the pecking order will be. Hence Lando sticking with McLaren is a sensible choice, if the deal only runs to 2026, Lando will have options.
Or you can view it as they don't think the regulations will provide good racing, which is a legitimate concern for a guy like Max (and commercially) and certainly was at the time those comments were made (remember now they added close to 50% more fuel weight some time afterwards). So I think you've established an either or that doesn't exist, there are more than two options here. In regards to comments specifically about the state of their engine development every single one of them I've read has been either bullish or "on target", coming from people in or close to the team (Marko, Horner, Ford CEO etc.).

Sure McLaren is the best placed customer team to win in 2026, because all the other teams with legitimate title ambitions are going to be factory teams by then. As far as disadvantages of being a customer, some of them disappeared when they banned engine modes, some of them disappeared when they implemented the engine freeze. But the engine freeze will disappear in 2026 and then that phenomenon of always being one step behind the manufacturer when it comes to adapting the newest spec engine becomes a factor.

Nobody has a clue? We certainly have a clue, we don't know definitively, but it's not like we don't know who these teams are and what their pedigree is based on their recent accomplishments. RB is right up there, McLaren hasn't been for a while. Could that change? Anything can happen, but it wouldn't be a good bet IMO.

Macklaren
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
28 Jan 2024, 19:38

Steady, the Ford boss was saying just last week how they are gonna go straight to the top with the new PU with Red Bull
https://www.racefans.net/2024/01/18/for ... -red-bull/

But that’s a discussion for the Red Bull thread.
...and Ron Dennis in 2015 called the Honda engine "a piece of jewelry" the "competitiveness of which was without question".
He has absolutely no idea until all the cars hit the track in Bahrain in March 2026.

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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I find it a little hard for Ford to immediately come to F1 and dominate after so much time being absent.

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scuderiabrandon
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
29 Jan 2024, 23:46
I find it a little hard for Ford to immediately come to F1 and dominate after so much time being absent.
They are only providing RBPT with tech/knowledge regarding the electric side of the power unit. There is a technical partnership but it is more so a branding exercise aswell.

Ben1980
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
28 Jan 2024, 05:03
mendis wrote:
28 Jan 2024, 04:52
djos wrote:
28 Jan 2024, 00:41


Agreed, Vettel is quality but to be fair he only won his first title when Mark and Fernando had a shocking last race and he pulled a Bradbury!

The rest of his tiles were thanks to Newey getting the blown diffuser working all the way through the corner, before that Mark was generally faster than he was.

And then when the blown diffuser was banned as part of the V6 hybrid era, Daniel wiped the floor with him.
What's wrong with the guy in the other car who couldn't win in the same machinery? :lol:

When Daniel failed in McLaren, it was the car that was the problem, but when Vettel failed in 2014, it's Daniel who beat him. :lol:

Using your own analogy, we can say Lando wiped the floor with Daniel.
Funny you should mention that - let’s see what the score board looks like:

Race wins:
Daniel 3 vs Sebastian 0
Daniel 1 vs Lando 0

Despite the Mclaren cars being flawed (according to Lando who publicly demanded it be fixed for 3 straight years), Daniel still has more race wins.
Race wins are an irrelevance in comparing drivers for the same team, when they have a points system which shows how they performed against each other.

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djos
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Ben1980 wrote:
30 Jan 2024, 09:25
djos wrote:
28 Jan 2024, 05:03
mendis wrote:
28 Jan 2024, 04:52
What's wrong with the guy in the other car who couldn't win in the same machinery? :lol:

When Daniel failed in McLaren, it was the car that was the problem, but when Vettel failed in 2014, it's Daniel who beat him. :lol:

Using your own analogy, we can say Lando wiped the floor with Daniel.
Funny you should mention that - let’s see what the score board looks like:

Race wins:
Daniel 3 vs Sebastian 0
Daniel 1 vs Lando 0

Despite the Mclaren cars being flawed (according to Lando who publicly demanded it be fixed for 3 straight years), Daniel still has more race wins.
Race wins are an irrelevance in comparing drivers for the same team, when they have a points system which shows how they performed against each other.
Ask Lando if he wanted that race win in Monza and see what he says!

Btw, in the case of Vettel vs Ricciardo, Daniel beat him on points by a big margin. At least the car was decent at RedBull, the same can’t be said for the James Key Maclaren’s - it’s why he was fired!
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