2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[stonehenge]

Let's be realistic. Mercedes wasn't kicking Hamilton out if he wanted to stay. Russell hasn't even proven to be better than him.

Also it's presumptuous to say there is no correlation (the twitter user erroneously claims) because the simulator session is not the first time that Hamilton learned of the W15. As we know by now, Hamilton has been very involved in steering the development of the W15 last year so he knows already what was changing and where they were projecting themselves. He may have already heard laptimes from when Davidson was in the simulator as well.

Well, the fact is Toto Wolff said Mercedes "couldn't commit for a longer period." Whether that equates to kicking him out is another question, but it's clear based on his statements that Mercedes did not want to want to offer him a long-term deal. Mark Hughes wrote a great article about the possible ramifications of that: https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... ri-theory/

If you're Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes is clear it will not offer you a long-term deal and beyond that a commitment to supporting your philanthropic projects like Mission 44, and at the same time, Ferrari is prepared to offer you *exactly* that, it makes a lot of sense that you would decide on making that move.

An on what this means for the performance of the car: realistically, both Mercedes and Ferrari will have a *very* hard time challenging Red Bull for the championship in 24 and 25. Yes, their cars could be much improved, and winning races is certainly possible. But winning a championship requires *consistently* getting the performance out of the car and *even if* Mercedes and Ferrari nail their concepts, getting to the same level of understanding and knowledge as Red Bull to compete with the same consistency will be extremely difficult. And keep in mind that the 2025 car won't see as much development given the approaching regs in 2026.

That means Lewis' best chance of winning another title is probably in 2026, and the fact is we now know that Mercedes was not prepared to offer him a contract for 2026 (at least this far out). It doesn't really matter which car is going to be faster if only one is offering you a seat.

If it's true that Wolff wouldn't offer Hamilton anything longer, then we can simply add it to the growing list of errors that he has made in the last several seasons. He has allowed Merc to be disemboweled. This will be studied in business schools around the world. How to sink a winning F1 team.

He says it at around 50 seconds in:

[Venturiation]

Let's be realistic. Mercedes wasn't kicking Hamilton out if he wanted to stay. Russell hasn't even proven to be better than him.

Also it's presumptuous to say there is no correlation (the twitter user erroneously claims) because the simulator session is not the first time that Hamilton learned of the W15. As we know by now, Hamilton has been very involved in steering the development of the W15 last year so he knows already what was changing and where they were projecting themselves. He may have already heard laptimes from when Davidson was in the simulator as well.

Mercedes refused his contract as an ambassador

Your first comment, the one I replied to, says that he left because Mercedes didn't want to extend him past 2025 so that is what my comment is in reference to.

Regarding the ambassadorship claim, anything reported about his post-career contracts is speculative until we hear it from Hamilton or Mercedes

They didn't want him after 2025, they offered him a 1+1 deal instead of 2+1

[AR3-GP]

Mercedes refused his contract as an ambassador

Your first comment, the one I replied to, says that he left because Mercedes didn't want to extend him past 2025 so that is what my comment is in reference to.

Regarding the ambassadorship claim, anything reported about his post-career contracts is speculative until we hear it from Hamilton or Mercedes

They didn't want him after 2025, they offered him a 1+1 deal instead of 2+1

Those quotes don't say that Mercedes was going to throw Hamilton out at the end of 2025. That's only your interpretation.

If you follow through the link you can see the proper context:

“But, as I said before, we went with open eyes into this contract, into this phase of our relationship. We knew that, maybe, it could be a year, or it could be two.

“We knew that it would come to an end, latest, at the end of 2025.

It is not of someone being thrown out. The 1+1 is not of someone being thrown out either. The ambassadorship details are also speculative and not sourced by anything here just as a few months ago where it was dismissed by Wolff and Hamilton.

Team principal and part-owner Wolff said at the F1 Belgian Grand Prix: “No, we’re not talking about an ambassadorial role post his retirement, nor is that part of the contract negotiations.

“I think he has many years to go as a driver within this team and therefore it’s only about cleaning things up in the contract.

As you can see, Toto said he thinks Hamilton has MANY years to go with this team. They would let Hamilton stay as long as he wanted and Hamilton would be the first one to put his hand up and say he was no longer good enough.

The problem was on Hamilton's end. Mercedes wasn't going to trample on Hamilton's happiness by forcing him to stay as the team's performances dropped. They were giving him an out. Toto knows Hamilton is tired and Mercedes hasn't delivered the goods for him. That's why Toto says "We knew...this phase of the relationship..it could be a year, it could be two". i.e. Hamilton is sick of this and we aren't going to force him to continue. 1+1 gave everybody and out. Hamilton could retire, switch teams, do whatever he wanted. Mercedes was just there to observe, not to control.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamil ... /10503274/

[organic]

"We knew that it'd come to an end, latest, at the end of 2025"

. Sounds like to me there was 0 intention from Merc to have Lewis in the team beyond 2025

[AR3-GP]

"We knew that it'd come to an end, latest, at the end of 2025"

. Sounds like to me there was 0 intention from Merc to have Lewis in the team beyond 2025

I think it's the other way around. Merc would have him if he wanted to stay, but they were fully expecting him to want to retire as a natural conclusion to his career for which he claimed Mercedes would be his last and the Merc cars continued to dissapoint. This relationship is long in the tooth and Mercedes wasn't going to force Hamilton to stay but they weren't going to throw him out either.

[Henri]

"We knew that it'd come to an end, latest, at the end of 2025"

. Sounds like to me there was 0 intention from Merc to have Lewis in the team beyond 2025

I think it's the other way around. Merc would have him if he wanted to stay, but they were fully expecting him to want to retire as a natural conclusion to his career for which he claimed Mercedes would be his last. This relationship is long in the tooth and Mercedes wasn't going to force Hamilton to stay but they weren't going to throw him out either.

Toto is a snake.. Lewis outplayed him

[dialtone]

. Sounds like to me there was 0 intention from Merc to have Lewis in the team beyond 2025

I think it's the other way around. Merc would have him if he wanted to stay, but they were fully expecting him to want to retire as a natural conclusion to his career for which he claimed Mercedes would be his last. This relationship is long in the tooth and Mercedes wasn't going to force Hamilton to stay but they weren't going to throw him out either.

Toto is a snake.. Lewis outplayed him

I don't think there's any outplaying here. This stuff happened all in the open, the 1+1 "agreement" and the fact that they didn't want to make him ambassador nor help him with his projects. Ferrari did the math and it will probably be worth more than what they are paying to have him end his career with Ferrari.

I just cannot believe that Mercedes has been so shortsighted in the handling of a 7x WDC that has recently performed significantly better than his team mate. The decision making in Mercedes has got to be questioned and they are seriously in a pickle.

They cannot work with Lewis in 2024 too much, they won't get feedback for 2026, they will lose more engineers... Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

[AR3-GP]

I think it's the other way around. Merc would have him if he wanted to stay, but they were fully expecting him to want to retire as a natural conclusion to his career for which he claimed Mercedes would be his last. This relationship is long in the tooth and Mercedes wasn't going to force Hamilton to stay but they weren't going to throw him out either.

Toto is a snake.. Lewis outplayed him

I don't think there's any outplaying here. This stuff happened all in the open, the 1+1 "agreement" and the fact that they didn't want to make him ambassador nor help him with his projects. Ferrari did the math and it will probably be worth more than what they are paying to have him end his career with Ferrari.

I just cannot believe that Mercedes has been so shortsighted in the handling of a 7x WDC that has recently performed significantly better than his team mate. The decision making in Mercedes has got to be questioned and they are seriously in a pickle.

They cannot work with Lewis in 2024 too much, they won't get feedback for 2026, they will lose more engineers... Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

+1

[Spoutnik]

Let's be realistic. Mercedes wasn't kicking Hamilton out if he wanted to stay. Russell hasn't even proven to be better than him.

Also it's presumptuous to say there is no correlation (the twitter user erroneously claims) because the simulator session is not the first time that Hamilton learned of the W15. As we know by now, Hamilton has been very involved in steering the development of the W15 last year so he knows already what was changing and where they were projecting themselves. He may have already heard laptimes from when Davidson was in the simulator as well.

Well, the fact is Toto Wolff said Mercedes "couldn't commit for a longer period." Whether that equates to kicking him out is another question, but it's clear based on his statements that Mercedes did not want to want to offer him a long-term deal. Mark Hughes wrote a great article about the possible ramifications of that: https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... ri-theory/

If you're Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes is clear it will not offer you a long-term deal and beyond that a commitment to supporting your philanthropic projects like Mission 44, and at the same time, Ferrari is prepared to offer you *exactly* that, it makes a lot of sense that you would decide on making that move.

An on what this means for the performance of the car: realistically, both Mercedes and Ferrari will have a *very* hard time challenging Red Bull for the championship in 24 and 25. Yes, their cars could be much improved, and winning races is certainly possible. But winning a championship requires *consistently* getting the performance out of the car and *even if* Mercedes and Ferrari nail their concepts, getting to the same level of understanding and knowledge as Red Bull to compete with the same consistency will be extremely difficult. And keep in mind that the 2025 car won't see as much development given the approaching regs in 2026.

That means Lewis' best chance of winning another title is probably in 2026, and the fact is we now know that Mercedes was not prepared to offer him a contract for 2026 (at least this far out). It doesn't really matter which car is going to be faster if only one is offering you a seat.

If it's true that Wolff wouldn't offer Hamilton anything longer, then we can simply add it to the growing list of errors that he has made in the last several seasons. He has allowed Merc to be disemboweled. This will be studied in business schools around the world. How to sink a winning F1 team.

For me it's clearly that. It's an Alpine-Alonso situation. Wolff wanted to see if he "could get better"

Now the mood in the camp must be pretty downhill honestly. Imagine the staff knowing the guy who carried the team for 10 years is leaving... after these two season

This mistake from is even bigger considering the performances of Russell last year

Merc might become a midtable team after all

[Spoutnik]

. Sounds like to me there was 0 intention from Merc to have Lewis in the team beyond 2025

I think it's the other way around. Merc would have him if he wanted to stay, but they were fully expecting him to want to retire as a natural conclusion to his career for which he claimed Mercedes would be his last. This relationship is long in the tooth and Mercedes wasn't going to force Hamilton to stay but they weren't going to throw him out either.

Toto is a snake.. Lewis outplayed him

This.
I'm biased but I find this unbelivable, from a pure performance pov (Russell will carry the team ????) aswell as for the relation between Toto-Lewis

[Henri]

I think it's the other way around. Merc would have him if he wanted to stay, but they were fully expecting him to want to retire as a natural conclusion to his career for which he claimed Mercedes would be his last. This relationship is long in the tooth and Mercedes wasn't going to force Hamilton to stay but they weren't going to throw him out either.

Toto is a snake.. Lewis outplayed him

This.
I'm biased but I find this unbelivable, from a pure performance pov (Russell will carry the team ????) aswell as for the relation between Toto-Lewis

Toto made a bad gamble.. and Lewis outplayed him.. but George wants to be the alpha of the team

[Chuckjr]

I’m betting Alonso’s agent was on hold before Toto hung the phone up in Milan.
Alonso to Merc.

[Venturiation]

. Sounds like to me there was 0 intention from Merc to have Lewis in the team beyond 2025

I think it's the other way around. Merc would have him if he wanted to stay, but they were fully expecting him to want to retire as a natural conclusion to his career for which he claimed Mercedes would be his last. This relationship is long in the tooth and Mercedes wasn't going to force Hamilton to stay but they weren't going to throw him out either.

Toto is a snake.. Lewis outplayed him

And Lewis still played nice and didn't hide it until the end of the season
They don't deserve him

[K1Plus]

What is happening to Mercedes is what has happened to Ferrari in terms of a downward spiral.
And it's going to get worse.
Your GOAT leaving you, Loïc Serra who on the direction of the 22/23 cars disagreed with Mike Elliott.
And a brain drain ever since Andy Cowell leaving the team.
Lewis will surely bring some more engineers to Ferrari.

[f1jcw]

What is happening to Mercedes is what has happened to Ferrari in terms of a downward spiral.
And it's going to get worse.
Your GOAT leaving you, Loïc Serra who on the direction of the 22/23 cars disagreed with Mike Elliott.
And a brain drain ever since Andy Cowell leaving the team.
Lewis will surely bring some more engineers to Ferrari.

The amount of engineers that have left would make a F1 super team on their own.
Cowell
Costa
Bob bell
Geoff Willis

I thought in there struggles they could (Costa atleast) asked them to advise on a part time basis.