2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Zynerji]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Think 2016 Nico Rosberg.

[CHT]

We're writing about a Lewis Hamilton who's 40 by then. Leclerc doesn't need to fear him. Just like a Rosberg didn't have to fear a Michael Schumacher.
Just like Charles didn't have to fear Vettel.
I am convinced that if Ferrari wins a world championship in 2025 or 2026, it will not be through Lewis.

Schumacher never had strong teammate, Rosberg was first one.
Alonso show that he can drive well at 40+ years

The last time a driver won WDC at 40 was Jack Brabham back in 1966.
The most likely age for drivers to win their first WDC in modern F1 is 23-25, and Charles is 26 this year.
MS won his 7th WDC at age 35 years old, while LH won his 7th WDC back in 2020, also at age 35

Winning odd races in F1 is possible for 40+
Having a faultless season at 40+ is harder
Older drivers tend to demand a specific setup to suit their driving styles
Younger drivers are more adaptable and pick things up much quicker

I think F1 is getting more and more complicated, the steering wheel is becoming more like a gaming console which requires lots of small tweaks and tricks to get the best out of the car.

Statistically speaking, the odds for F1 drivers to win WDC at >40 is much lower, not impossible

[CHT]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Carlos will savor the moment as a Ferrari driver, and the best way to end his Ferrari career will be to beat Charles in 2024. Carlos has got nothing to lose in 2024 which means he can take on more risk. It will be bad for Charles's morale going into 2025 if he is beaten by Carlos. 2024 may be a tough year for Charles.

[scuderiabrandon]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Carlos will savor the moment as a Ferrari driver, and the best way to end his Ferrari career will be to beat Charles in 2024. Carlos has got nothing to lose in 2024 which means he can take on more risk. It will be bad for Charles's morale going into 2025 if he is beaten by Carlos. 2024 may be a tough year for Charles.

lol what a way to feed your agenda. Maybe Carlos has something to lose because, maybe idk, he doesn't have a seat for 2025? Being jobless in 2025 sounds like a pretty big loss for me.

Luckily Charles has finsihed ahead of him on points 2/3 times whilst demolishing him in every metric possible even in the year CS finished 6 points ahead. Literally obliterated on every meaningful metric. So stress should be at a minimum really, knowing the team is now more likely to prioritize him.

Do you have the same opinion about George at Mercedes?

[j_ste]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Think 2016 Nico Rosberg.

Hoping that CL has a ton of bad luck is usually a reliable strategy...so you might be right.

Ultimately, the smart drivers dont burn bridges because they are professionals

[Vanja #66]

As far as I can see, for the past 2-3 days it's mostly been other team's fans that have been here commenting on Lewis in Ferrari. If other teams will worry about Ferrari this way in 2025, that's another added benefit of this move that I didn't anticipate.

Everyone's a Ferrari fan

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

I don't think Vasseur will make any public declaration, but as a smart manager he will want to give a few nudges at the right time to the driver that stays. Sainz must show other teams what he's worth and he will feel the pressure outside the track, which inevitably shows on track as well. He has shown he's more than prone to errors under pressure the last 2 years. I don't expect he'll show outright disobedience, but if he does he might be given la bota and will have trouble finding a new seat.

On the other hand, Leclerc will be under no pressure and he will want to show the team he's their best chance for a title even when Hamilton arrives. If 24 is even just slightly better than 23 car and he can set it up to his liking, he needs to make an extra effort this year, even more so than 22.

Think 2016 Nico Rosberg.

I'd love to see any argument how Rosberg and Sainz can be even remotely compared Not even the 2014-2016 Rosberg, just the results before 2014

[CHT]

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

Carlos will savor the moment as a Ferrari driver, and the best way to end his Ferrari career will be to beat Charles in 2024. Carlos has got nothing to lose in 2024 which means he can take on more risk. It will be bad for Charles's morale going into 2025 if he is beaten by Carlos. 2024 may be a tough year for Charles.

lol what a way to feed your agenda. Maybe Carlos has something to lose because, maybe idk, he doesn't have a seat for 2025? Being jobless in 2025 sounds like a pretty big loss for me.

Luckily Charles has finsihed ahead of him on points 2/3 times whilst demolishing him in every metric possible even in the year CS finished 6 points ahead. Literally obliterated on every meaningful metric. So stress should be at a minimum really, knowing the team is now more likely to prioritize him.

Do you have the same opinion about George at Mercedes?

It will make no difference to Carlos if Charles beat him or not because he will be leaving Ferrari regardless of the result. While Charles will have to ensure he needs to live up to expectations to be the chosen one to remain in Ferrari. To finish behind Carlos in 2024 will not be good for CL going into 2025 against a 7xWDC. Ferrari has high expectations of drivers and everyone is replaceable. Ferrari drivers cannot crack under pressure and it's not very often they get tested these days.

George is in a slightly different position because LH wanted out, to join a rival team. So the working relationship between Merc and LH will certainly change in favor of GR. Finishing behind LH will be fine because LH is 7WDC and Merc is not going to replace GR.

I am not here to guess who will be a quicker or better driver, just the psychological dynamic between teammates due to their own unique circumstances.

[CHT]

As far as I can see, for the past 2-3 days it's mostly been other team's fans that have been here commenting on Lewis in Ferrari. If other teams will worry about Ferrari this way in 2025, that's another added benefit of this move that I didn't anticipate.

Everyone's a Ferrari fan

How does everyone see 2024 play out between Carlos and Charles? I have felt at times over the last couple of years that Carlos tends to race more for Team Sainz than for Team Scuderia. I think this year will show a lot in regard to that dynamic. He now has no ties to Ferrari, he doesn't need to play nice, he doesn't need to win anyone over at the team... it could get interesting. Will they be allowed to race each other? How will team orders be issued?

I don't think Vasseur will make any public declaration, but as a smart manager he will want to give a few nudges at the right time to the driver that stays. Sainz must show other teams what he's worth and he will feel the pressure outside the track, which inevitably shows on track as well. He has shown he's more than prone to errors under pressure the last 2 years. I don't expect he'll show outright disobedience, but if he does he might be given la bota and will have trouble finding a new seat.

On the other hand, Leclerc will be under no pressure and he will want to show the team he's their best chance for a title even when Hamilton arrives. If 24 is even just slightly better than 23 car and he can set it up to his liking, he needs to make an extra effort this year, even more so than 22.

Think 2016 Nico Rosberg.

I'd love to see any argument how Rosberg and Sainz can be even remotely compared Not even the 2014-2016 Rosberg, just the results before 2014

Carlos is likely to secure a seat before the end of the season, so the 2024 result will not matter as he has been in F1 long enough.

[KimiRai]

F1 | Mercedes background: Hamilton can't take engineers away
As we anticipated, the rumors that Lewis could bring some trusted technicians to Ferrari have little credibility because a "non-poaching clause" was included in the drafting of the contract with the seven-time world champion which prevents Hamilton from calling Peter Bonnington or Andrew Shovlin. The Star protected himself, a sign that the fears of an exit had already been contemplated at the renewal of the agreement which provided for a year plus option.

[...] in reality the operation will not be possible. According to what Motorsport.com has learned, in the voluminous contract that Lewis signed with Mercedes last August there is a clause that protects the team on this front. In England it is called the "non-poaching clause", a note that is attached to managers' contracts to prevent an action aimed at inviting former colleagues to follow the same path in the event of termination of the relationship with the company, proposing employment in another workplace.

Mercedes has used the same approach with Hamilton, who is expressly prohibited by contact from even proposing to his current collaborators to follow him towards Maranello starting from 2025. It is a measure that several Formula 1 teams have introduced in the contracts of the top -manager and in some cases (like this one) also of some pilots, in order to avoid hemorrhaging of personnel. Poaching (literally 'poaching') has been a topic that has long been present in the contracts of technical directors and team principals, as well as in those of top drivers, figures who can have an important influence on the team.

A similar case occurred at the end of the 2014 season. Fernando Alonso, after his divorce from Maranello and his subsequent move to McLaren, managed to be followed by the then track engineer Andrea Stella. The same operation was not possible for Sebastian Vettel (who replaced Alonso at Ferrari) because the contract signed with Red Bull included a 'poaching' clause which prevented Guillaume "Rocky" Rocquelin (Seb's engineer in the four world championship seasons) from following Vettel in his new adventure in 'red'. Obviously a transfer is always possible with the consent of all parties, but it doesn't seem like the current scenario for Mercedes, taken by surprise and certainly not enthusiastic about Hamilton's departure.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-re ... /10573618/

[Timtim99]

Title: “The Carlos and Charles Show: Ferrari’s Intriguing 2024 Season”
Introduction
In a dramatic turn of events, Sir Lewis Hamilton has made the audacious move from Mercedes to Ferrari for the 2025 Formula One season. The seven-time world champion’s decision has sent shockwaves through the paddock, leaving fans and pundits alike wondering how this seismic shift will impact the Scuderia. But amidst the Hamilton hoopla, there’s another captivating storyline brewing within the Ferrari garage: the battle between Carlos Sainz and Charles Leclerc.

The Sainz Factor
Over the past couple of years, Carlos Sainz has been a loyal servant to Team Scuderia. His commitment and dedication have often tilted the scales in favor of the team, even when personal glory seemed elusive. But now, with no lingering ties to Ferrari, Sainz finds himself unshackled. He no longer needs to play nice or win anyone over. The question is: Will he seize this newfound freedom to race with unbridled aggression? Or will he continue to prioritize the collective over individual glory?

The Leclerc Enigma
Charles Leclerc, on the other hand, has been Ferrari’s golden boy since joining the team in 2019. His meteoric rise and raw talent have endeared him to the Tifosi. But beneath the polished exterior lies a fierce competitor. Leclerc has tasted success, but the ultimate prize—the World Championship—still eludes him. With Hamilton’s arrival, Leclerc faces a dual challenge: not only must he fend off the seasoned Briton but also keep Sainz at bay. Will he thrive under the pressure, or will the internal rivalry prove too much?

The Battle Royale
The million-dollar question: Will Ferrari allow Sainz and Leclerc to race each other freely? In the past, team orders have often stifled intra-team battles, favoring one driver over the other. But this season could be different. With Hamilton as the marquee signing, Ferrari might be tempted to let their drivers duke it out on equal terms. Imagine the thrill of wheel-to-wheel combat between Sainz and Leclerc, both hungry for glory. It’s a tantalizing prospect—one that could redefine the Scuderia’s approach to team dynamics.

Team Orders vs. Unleashed Rivalry
The delicate balance between team harmony and individual ambition will be tested. Will Ferrari issue coded messages over the radio, urging one driver to yield to the other? Or will they embrace the chaos, allowing Sainz and Leclerc to fight tooth and nail for supremacy? The stakes are high: a world championship hangs in the balance, and Ferrari’s legacy is on the line. As the season unfolds, keep an eye on the pit wall. The decisions made there will shape the destiny of the Prancing Horse.

Conclusion
The 2024 season promises drama, intrigue, and perhaps a touch of nostalgia. As we watch the Carlos and Charles Show unfold, we’ll witness a battle not only for points but also for pride. Sainz vs. Leclerc—a clash of styles, personalities, and ambitions. And in the midst of it all, Hamilton will be lurking, eager to prove that age is just a number. Buckle up, F1 fans. The Ferrari circus is about to begin, and the spotlight is firmly on the scarlet-clad warriors. Let the games commence!

[CHT]

F1 | Mercedes background: Hamilton can't take engineers away
As we anticipated, the rumors that Lewis could bring some trusted technicians to Ferrari have little credibility because a "non-poaching clause" was included in the drafting of the contract with the seven-time world champion which prevents Hamilton from calling Peter Bonnington or Andrew Shovlin. The Star protected himself, a sign that the fears of an exit had already been contemplated at the renewal of the agreement which provided for a year plus option.

[...] in reality the operation will not be possible. According to what Motorsport.com has learned, in the voluminous contract that Lewis signed with Mercedes last August there is a clause that protects the team on this front. In England it is called the "non-poaching clause", a note that is attached to managers' contracts to prevent an action aimed at inviting former colleagues to follow the same path in the event of termination of the relationship with the company, proposing employment in another workplace.

Mercedes has used the same approach with Hamilton, who is expressly prohibited by contact from even proposing to his current collaborators to follow him towards Maranello starting from 2025. It is a measure that several Formula 1 teams have introduced in the contracts of the top -manager and in some cases (like this one) also of some pilots, in order to avoid hemorrhaging of personnel. Poaching (literally 'poaching') has been a topic that has long been present in the contracts of technical directors and team principals, as well as in those of top drivers, figures who can have an important influence on the team.

A similar case occurred at the end of the 2014 season. Fernando Alonso, after his divorce from Maranello and his subsequent move to McLaren, managed to be followed by the then track engineer Andrea Stella. The same operation was not possible for Sebastian Vettel (who replaced Alonso at Ferrari) because the contract signed with Red Bull included a 'poaching' clause which prevented Guillaume "Rocky" Rocquelin (Seb's engineer in the four world championship seasons) from following Vettel in his new adventure in 'red'. Obviously a transfer is always possible with the consent of all parties, but it doesn't seem like the current scenario for Mercedes, taken by surprise and certainly not enthusiastic about Hamilton's departure.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-re ... /10573618/

At 40 years old, LH doesn't have many years left in this F1 career. The moment he wins his 8WDC he will hang up his boots and retire as WDC. Any engineers who quit Merc to join him at Ferrari will need to remember that his career will be a very short one.

[SharkY]

because a "non-poaching clause" was included in the drafting of the contract with the seven-time world champion

I wonder how can this be enforced, as this is in the contract with LH and not with Ferrari.

Let's say that LH doesn't contact any employee directly or indirectly in any way and some people just contact Ferrari out of their own free will, because they just want to work with him. Then, I can't see how LH would breach the contract.
Unless there are some weird clauses in those employees contracts, an employee can always resign and (after some likely gardening leave) work for someone else.

That said, I don't think Bono would be so beneficial to the team. He was managing HAM well in the dominant years, but I wouldn't say that the communication was flawless for the past to seasons, when he needs to perform on more competetive level. I think Ricky would do just fine.

[Cs98]

F1 | Mercedes background: Hamilton can't take engineers away
As we anticipated, the rumors that Lewis could bring some trusted technicians to Ferrari have little credibility because a "non-poaching clause" was included in the drafting of the contract with the seven-time world champion which prevents Hamilton from calling Peter Bonnington or Andrew Shovlin. The Star protected himself, a sign that the fears of an exit had already been contemplated at the renewal of the agreement which provided for a year plus option.

[...] in reality the operation will not be possible. According to what Motorsport.com has learned, in the voluminous contract that Lewis signed with Mercedes last August there is a clause that protects the team on this front. In England it is called the "non-poaching clause", a note that is attached to managers' contracts to prevent an action aimed at inviting former colleagues to follow the same path in the event of termination of the relationship with the company, proposing employment in another workplace.

Mercedes has used the same approach with Hamilton, who is expressly prohibited by contact from even proposing to his current collaborators to follow him towards Maranello starting from 2025. It is a measure that several Formula 1 teams have introduced in the contracts of the top -manager and in some cases (like this one) also of some pilots, in order to avoid hemorrhaging of personnel. Poaching (literally 'poaching') has been a topic that has long been present in the contracts of technical directors and team principals, as well as in those of top drivers, figures who can have an important influence on the team.

A similar case occurred at the end of the 2014 season. Fernando Alonso, after his divorce from Maranello and his subsequent move to McLaren, managed to be followed by the then track engineer Andrea Stella. The same operation was not possible for Sebastian Vettel (who replaced Alonso at Ferrari) because the contract signed with Red Bull included a 'poaching' clause which prevented Guillaume "Rocky" Rocquelin (Seb's engineer in the four world championship seasons) from following Vettel in his new adventure in 'red'. Obviously a transfer is always possible with the consent of all parties, but it doesn't seem like the current scenario for Mercedes, taken by surprise and certainly not enthusiastic about Hamilton's departure.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-re ... /10573618/

Interesting. So basically a guy like Bono can't leave to Ferrari now without the consent of Merc, which they are unlikely to give.

[Sidiamal]

This "non-poaching" clause is a hash. If it exists, it's not legally enforceable in any capacity.

[Farnborough]

Isn't the point of going to race at another team then to have their approach ?

Is there, by further extension, value in taking personell with him from a failed (last two years) operation ?

Working with their existing staff, at Ferrari, is more expansive and should lead to improved performance.