Christian Horner under Investigation

[Robbo]

Despite how this is going to end with Horner, this is not good for Red Bull racing. It will be felt in the time to come.

[littlebigcat]

There is a lot of doublethink happening here.

[Big Tea]

What are the chances of the person making complaint going to GmbH en not RBR?
Seems they had no faith in RBR to investigate or possible they didn't do investigations at all.
What for me is sticking out is why getting outside legal is needed.
F1 teams have high end legal people.
Toolworks near me in Bilzen has 25 staff and 2 legals for contracts and employment.
Was the barrister needed for profile of case or because GmbH had no faith in RBR to do this properly?

If nothing else to "wash their hands of it" once it is done and dusted either way.
There is no person who made the decision or did not handle it well still inside the company to cause friction or resentment in later times.

It is also (probably) to be seen as not kicking it under the mat and not telling all.

[Watto]

What are the chances of the person making complaint going to GmbH en not RBR?
Seems they had no faith in RBR to investigate or possible they didn't do investigations at all.
What for me is sticking out is why getting outside legal is needed.
F1 teams have high end legal people.
Toolworks near me in Bilzen has 25 staff and 2 legals for contracts and employment.
Was the barrister needed for profile of case or because GmbH had no faith in RBR to do this properly?

If nothing else to "wash their hands of it" once it is done and dusted either way.
There is no person who made the decision or did not handle it well still inside the company to cause friction or resentment in later times.

It is also (probably) to be seen as not kicking it under the mat and not telling all.

Yeah the outside legal is a non issue to me - probably PR as much as any real issue. If the investigator is on the full time pay till, there are always concerns of bias. SOmeone outside can do the investigation once a call is make have nothing to do with anyone within any part of Red Bull its a common enough tactic.

The odd part of it to me is RB GmbH leaks, no doubt some PR to try and control the narrative for as little damage as possible. But I find it a little odd as I think it is causing just that - maybe not to RB GmbH but to the RBR (which maybe is their goal) leaves the feeling of either the allegations are pretty serious or the latter trying to destabilize Horner - it seems a rather messy way to achieve that though but can see how it may be the case, the Porsche deal as mentioned, that Visa Cash App is so far from what we're use to with RB that its become a very commercial more than we're used to.

[AR3-GP]

What are the chances of the person making complaint going to GmbH en not RBR?
Seems they had no faith in RBR to investigate or possible they didn't do investigations at all.
What for me is sticking out is why getting outside legal is needed.
F1 teams have high end legal people.
Toolworks near me in Bilzen has 25 staff and 2 legals for contracts and employment.
Was the barrister needed for profile of case or because GmbH had no faith in RBR to do this properly?

If nothing else to "wash their hands of it" once it is done and dusted either way.
There is no person who made the decision or did not handle it well still inside the company to cause friction or resentment in later times.

It is also (probably) to be seen as not kicking it under the mat and not telling all.

Yeah the outside legal is a non issue to me - probably PR as much as any real issue. If the investigator is on the full time pay till, there are always concerns of bias. SOmeone outside can do the investigation once a call is make have nothing to do with anyone within any part of Red Bull its a common enough tactic.

The odd part of it to me is RB GmbH leaks, no doubt some PR to try and control the narrative for as little damage as possible. But I find it a little odd as I think it is causing just that - maybe not to RB GmbH but to the RBR (which maybe is their goal) leaves the feeling of either the allegations are pretty serious or the latter trying to destabilize Horner - it seems a rather messy way to achieve that though but can see how it may be the case, the Porsche deal as mentioned, that Visa Cash App is so far from what we're use to with RB that its become a very commercial more than we're used to.

An energy drink company sponsoring a car with their drink name can hardly complain about Visa Cash App. None of them are automakers (well RB is doing the RB17, but you get the point..)

I wonder if even the RB17 project could be at risk. I cannot see how that is a profitable venture.

[mendis]

The odd part of it to me is RB GmbH leaks, no doubt some PR to try and control the narrative for as little damage as possible. But I find it a little odd as I think it is causing just that - maybe not to RB GmbH but to the RBR (which maybe is their goal) leaves the feeling of either the allegations are pretty serious or the latter trying to destabilize Horner - it seems a rather messy way to achieve that though

It appears this is a power struggle between Horner and someone in RB GmbH Austria. Horner had DM's full backing and nobody could shake him off while DM was alive. My hunch is, the under currents got stronger once DM passed away and foundations were slowly laid to build a case against Horner, which is now ripe to be played with. With RB now not just a racing team, with engine division having come to life with projects like RB17 about to come to life, the automobile business is probably going to thrive and someone really wants control of this. There is no reason why suddenly RB GmbH comes into picture to handle a case that was supposedly should have been handled first by Red Bull Racing company.

[dialtone]

The odd part of it to me is RB GmbH leaks, no doubt some PR to try and control the narrative for as little damage as possible. But I find it a little odd as I think it is causing just that - maybe not to RB GmbH but to the RBR (which maybe is their goal) leaves the feeling of either the allegations are pretty serious or the latter trying to destabilize Horner - it seems a rather messy way to achieve that though

It appears this is a power struggle between Horner and someone in RB GmbH Austria. Horner had DM's full backing and nobody could shake him off while DM was alive. My hunch is, the under currents got stronger once DM passed away and foundations were slowly laid to build a case against Horner, which is now ripe to be played with. With RB now not just a racing team, with engine division having come to life with projects like RB17 about to come to life, the automobile business is probably going to thrive and someone really wants control of this. There is no reason why suddenly RB GmbH comes into picture to handle a case that was supposedly should have been handled first by Red Bull Racing company.

It really makes no sense. RB just paid the guy and Marko goes around saying he’s great. Newey works only with Horner and somehow you people think that it’s RB that has a beef with the man and somehow decided to deal with it by leaking the story to this Dutch journalist?



After more than 2 decades of never getting involved in the F1 team, you all think that suddenly RB GmbH has woken up with thirst for more direct control of RBR. RB has no choice but to investigate, leaking this has no benefit whatsoever for RB, and it's especially weird that they'd do so to a Dutch journo.

[mendis]

The odd part of it to me is RB GmbH leaks, no doubt some PR to try and control the narrative for as little damage as possible. But I find it a little odd as I think it is causing just that - maybe not to RB GmbH but to the RBR (which maybe is their goal) leaves the feeling of either the allegations are pretty serious or the latter trying to destabilize Horner - it seems a rather messy way to achieve that though

It appears this is a power struggle between Horner and someone in RB GmbH Austria. Horner had DM's full backing and nobody could shake him off while DM was alive. My hunch is, the under currents got stronger once DM passed away and foundations were slowly laid to build a case against Horner, which is now ripe to be played with. With RB now not just a racing team, with engine division having come to life with projects like RB17 about to come to life, the automobile business is probably going to thrive and someone really wants control of this. There is no reason why suddenly RB GmbH comes into picture to handle a case that was supposedly should have been handled first by Red Bull Racing company.

It really makes no sense. RB just paid the guy and Marko goes around saying he’s great. Newey works only with Horner and somehow you people think that it’s RB that has a beef with the man and somehow decided to deal with it by leaking the story to this Dutch journalist?

https://i.imgur.com/S49vwPg.png

After more than 2 decades of never getting involved in the F1 team, you all think that suddenly RB GmbH has woken up with thirst for more direct control of RBR. RB has no choice but to investigate, leaking this has no benefit whatsoever for RB, and it's especially weird that they'd do so to a Dutch journo.

You didn't read the post fully I am guessing. Horner's contract was extended when DM was still alive.

[organic]

The odd part of it to me is RB GmbH leaks, no doubt some PR to try and control the narrative for as little damage as possible. But I find it a little odd as I think it is causing just that - maybe not to RB GmbH but to the RBR (which maybe is their goal) leaves the feeling of either the allegations are pretty serious or the latter trying to destabilize Horner - it seems a rather messy way to achieve that though

It appears this is a power struggle between Horner and someone in RB GmbH Austria. Horner had DM's full backing and nobody could shake him off while DM was alive. My hunch is, the under currents got stronger once DM passed away and foundations were slowly laid to build a case against Horner, which is now ripe to be played with. With RB now not just a racing team, with engine division having come to life with projects like RB17 about to come to life, the automobile business is probably going to thrive and someone really wants control of this. There is no reason why suddenly RB GmbH comes into picture to handle a case that was supposedly should have been handled first by Red Bull Racing company.

It really makes no sense. RB just paid the guy and Marko goes around saying he’s great. Newey works only with Horner and somehow you people think that it’s RB that has a beef with the man and somehow decided to deal with it by leaking the story to this Dutch journalist?

https://i.imgur.com/S49vwPg.png

After more than 2 decades of never getting involved in the F1 team, you all think that suddenly RB GmbH has woken up with thirst for more direct control of RBR. RB has no choice but to investigate, leaking this has no benefit whatsoever for RB, and it's especially weird that they'd do so to a Dutch journo.

This massively ignores the fact that Mateschitz died. He was the figurehead of RB and Marko's longtime friendship with him essentially gave Marko direct control over the entire RBR operation. In DM's absence it seems there was an internal struggle of the English (Horner) Vs Austrian (Marko) side of things. The same journalist, frequently seen in the RB garage during the race weekends and personal friend of Verstappen, who broke the news of the whole Horner investigation confirmed exactly this: an internal power struggle is occurring in the vacuum left by DM's absence

[dialtone]

And RB would leak it to this guy why? Seems more like Jos leaked it to me.

But again, at some point we’ll know more, right now to me it makes no sense.

[Ground Effect]

I think a lot of people on the outside overestimate Horner's influence on the team, or the powers he has. He's more of a figurehead and articulate PR person. Marko runs the team, makes the big decisions. He put Max in the Red Bull, he did the Honda deal, he put De Vries in the car (Horner didn't want him). Hormer is TP in name only. The last time he tried to intervene in a situation was Multi 2-1, and was ignored. His biggest strong point was he was well liked be the late DM, who was an extremely loyal person to those he liked. Horner's close friendship with Newey is another bonus. But it seems he tried to position himself with the new owners and push Marko to the curb, or side at least. It looks like he's paying for it.

[proteus]

It is interesting to see how jet again missinformation leaked by the media. It was not a sexual harassment, but the employee was supposedly under too much pressure and control from Horner.... Remember kids, never trust majority of journslists, because they go only for clicks and not for the truth. Truth can come later, after lies make enough damage...

[mwillems]

Didnt the same reporter say that Marko has nothing to do with this? Felt like the article confirmed many things happening behind the scenes, but not necessarily how they relate to the complaint.

[Ground Effect]

It is interesting to see how jet again missinformation leaked by the media. It was not a sexual harassment, but the employee was supposedly under too much pressure and control from Horner.... Remember kids, never trust majority of journslists, because they go only for clicks and not for the truth. Truth can come later, after lies make enough damage...

Isn't that a job for HR to sort out? What's with the external lawyers? Should someone's job be on the line for that? Have there being multiple reports by staff of such behaviour? F1 after all, is a high pressure job, probably at any operational level. The early reports stated inappropriate behaviour of a controlling nature, that was used in the BBC article. The allegation is being made by a female staff, so a lot of people are filling in the blanks based on the information available. It is a bizarre situation, but the controlling nature thing could suggest that her job or career progression was being threatened.

[FW17]

It is interesting to see how jet again missinformation leaked by the media. It was not a sexual harassment, but the employee was supposedly under too much pressure and control from Horner.... Remember kids, never trust majority of journslists, because they go only for clicks and not for the truth. Truth can come later, after lies make enough damage...

Isn't that a job for HR to sort out? What's with the external lawyers? Should someone's job be on the line for that? Have there being multiple reports by staff of such behaviour? F1 after all, is a high pressure job, probably at any operational level. The early reports stated inappropriate behaviour of a controlling nature, that was used in the BBC article. The allegation is being made by a female staff, so a lot of people are filling in the blanks based on the information available. It is a bizarre situation, but the controlling nature thing could suggest that her job or career progression was being threatened.

CH is the top of the subsidiary organization, this is why it being handled by the parent company and an external investigator.