2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[SmallSoldier]

I'm not one to usually believe the stories that teams are hiding things (or that it makes sense), but this does seem like they want to keep things hidden as long as possible?

Is that really necessary in this complex age where it's not easy to copy.

It’s not that much about copying… It is about development directions, contrary to many on this site with CFD eyes, the teams have very capable people and can rapidly understand what someone is trying to achieve by looking at some of the aero cues on the car.

A couple of weeks doesn’t seem much for us, but in an environment where rapid development it’s a must, every week you gain or every week you avoid your counterparts from analyzing your development path (if you think your idea is unique) is time gained at the track versus your competition.

[LionsHeart]

Why were some people disappointed to write that they saw the 2023 chassis today? Actually this car was the second fastest in the second half of 2023. I don't understand the discontent and pessimism. Did anyone expect to see a NASA rocket?

I saw roughly what I expected to see. The usual evolution of the chassis. As long as it goes fast. Red Bull didn't change much between 2022 and 2023 either, but consistently drove ahead of the planet.

[SmallSoldier]

Why were some people disappointed to write that they saw the 2023 chassis today? Actually this car was the second fastest in the second half of 2023. I don't understand the discontent and pessimism. Did anyone expect to see a NASA rocket?

I saw roughly what I expected to see. The usual evolution of the chassis. As long as it goes fast. Red Bull didn't change much between 2022 and 2023 either, but consistently drove ahead of the planet.

Because some have CFD eyes and can tell if the car is fast or slow from a render, lol

This is one the best and worst parts of the season in the forum, best because of the amount of pictures, details and discussions regarding the technical aspects of the car… Bad, because a lot will make judgements on the car even before a lap has been turned in testing, judgements based on testing lap times, etc… We equate “different” with “fast” most often than not and that’s a fallacy.

One would usually ask to wait until the end of testing, but the reality is that until Qualy in Bahrain, we won’t know how fast / slow the car is

[LionsHeart]

Why were some people disappointed to write that they saw the 2023 chassis today? Actually this car was the second fastest in the second half of 2023. I don't understand the discontent and pessimism. Did anyone expect to see a NASA rocket?

I saw roughly what I expected to see. The usual evolution of the chassis. As long as it goes fast. Red Bull didn't change much between 2022 and 2023 either, but consistently drove ahead of the planet.

Because some CFD eyes and can tell if the car is fast or slow from a render, lol

This is one the best and worst parts of the season in the forum, best because of the amount of pictures, details and discussions regarding the technical aspects of the car… Bad, because a lot will make judgements on the car even before a lap has been turned in testing, judgements based on testing lap times, etc… We equate “different” with “fast” most often than not and that’s a fallacy.

One would usually ask to wait until the end of testing, but the reality is that until Qualy in Bahrain, we won’t know how fast / slow the car is

That's right. Can't argue with that.

[mwillems]

It's remarkable that despite the new facilities they haven't moved from the philosophy of producing an underdeveloped car and banking on in-season upgrades to rescue some pace. The team must know something we don't according to the confident statements, but by all accounts the car seems very agricultural compared to the rest, and it's difficult to argue that staying with this methodology will help them win any titles let alone races...

They are clearly hiding changes to the front of the car, except for the new suspension as that is pretty hard to hide. The fences have been obfuscated in the digitally altered photos and if we update the suspension and the fences but not the FW then I'll eat the not insubstantial kitty litter that belongs to my two overweight cats.

Those changes alone are pretty substantial. We don't really get to see much at the rear of the car or the floor either. So what is left in terms of big changes apart from the sidepods from a visual standpoint? Almost Nothing. And then we don't know if the internal cooling layout has reduced drag... We learnt very little today.

Totally open to critisism as in the past the team has deserved it and this is an open forum after all. But I'm surprised you think we've had much "revealed" to us yet to be quiet honest and I think you are jumping the gun somewhat.

[mwillems]

Anyone else getting an iffy vibe from the team atm or is it just me ? can’t help but get the feeling either there being very close lipped about the car or something gone wrong maybe it’s just me but they’ve seemed off all winter

No I thought they have been very positive about the time they have found over winter.

[mwillems]

I'm not one to usually believe the stories that teams are hiding things (or that it makes sense), but this does seem like they want to keep things hidden as long as possible?

Is that really necessary in this complex age where it's not easy to copy.

It’s not that much about copying… It is about development directions, contrary to many on this site with CFD eyes, the teams have very capable people and can rapidly understand what someone is trying to achieve by looking at some of the aero cues on the car.

A couple of weeks doesn’t seem much for us, but in an environment where rapid development it’s a must, every week you gain or every week you avoid your counterparts from analyzing your development path (if you think your idea is unique) is time gained at the track versus your competition.

This is in response to your reply about disappointment and to this post.

It's worth adding that this is the budget cap era. Which means you don't just ping out updates as soon as you think you've found some time.

If you run through a development project and you don't stop seeing gains from one particular line of development then yes, you have to draw the line somewhere and release something. But the balance has moved towards the continuation of development and away from the production of parts as we look towards benefits realisation for the money we spent versus that car we can develop.

This is still not a title winning year in terms of targets and what is clear to me that this year is like last year. A development year setting us up for 2025, only this year with some wins mixed in. We are looking now to be 1st fastest car before the end of the year so that we can carry that over and be the fastest car for most of next year, when we have targeted a run at the title.

The optimal route to getting the fastest car isn't being as fast as we can from the outset, it is spending the money the most efficient way so that at the start of next year we will challenge for drivers and constructors championship.

This means sacrificing a few points and some pace at the start of the year to get a shortcut on the in season development war and approaching it any differently wouldn't really make sense.

For those not understanding why Stella talks about not working to targets, then this is why. A target can make you do something, follow some line of development that is ultimately not the right approach, because that approach is all about demonstrating progress, or trying to ensure you can get to a certain point, and not just about reaching the very end goal in the best way. This can subvert the journey because the focus of each upgrades stops being about the whole journey of the whole car over the year and that each development becomes more "silo'd". This is counter to Stella's approach, which is about progress and nothing else. If waiting for 6 more weeks means we get a faster car by years ends but people complain at the start, then let them complain.

[SmallSoldier]

I'm not one to usually believe the stories that teams are hiding things (or that it makes sense), but this does seem like they want to keep things hidden as long as possible?

Is that really necessary in this complex age where it's not easy to copy.

It’s not that much about copying… It is about development directions, contrary to many on this site with CFD eyes, the teams have very capable people and can rapidly understand what someone is trying to achieve by looking at some of the aero cues on the car.

A couple of weeks doesn’t seem much for us, but in an environment where rapid development it’s a must, every week you gain or every week you avoid your counterparts from analyzing your development path (if you think your idea is unique) is time gained at the track versus your competition.

This is in response to your reply about disappointment and to this post.

It's worth adding that this is the budget cap era. Which means you don't just ping out updates as soon as you think you've found some time.

If you run through a development project and you don't stop seeing gains from one particular line of development then yes, you have to draw the line somewhere and release something. But the balance has moved towards the continuation of development and away from the production of parts as we look towards benefits realisation for the money we spent versus that car we can develop.

This is still not a title winning year in terms of targets and what is clear to me that this year is like last year. A development year setting us up for 2025, only this year with some wins mixed in. We are looking now to be 1st fastest car before the end of the year so that we can carry that over and be the fastest car for most of next year, when we have targeted a run at the title.

The optimal route to getting the fastest car isn't being as fast as we can from the outset, it is spending the money the most efficient way so that at the start of next year we will challenge for drivers and constructors championship.

This means sacrificing a few points and some pace at the start of the year to get a shortcut on the in season development war and approaching it any differently wouldn't really make sense.

For those not understanding why Stella talks about not working to targets, then this is why. A target can make you do something, follow some line of development that is ultimately not the right approach, because that approach is all about demonstrating progress and not just about progress. This is counter to Stellas approach, which is about progress and nothing else.

Historically, teams have tried to continue development / iterations until the last possible moment… Even before the budget cap era, teams stretch development to the point that parts were finished before testing started or sometimes even in within testing, it was pretty normal to see big updates or evolutions from one to the next (when we had 2 weeks of testing).

I agree that it is all about how much you can develop during the year, avoiding situations like Aston Martin last season, with a very fast car in the beginning stretch (some even calling them contenders during that first phase of the season) to slowly drop back in the standings and in pace relative to others… I much rather have a decent car at the beginning of the season (which is my expectation) that can get faster throughout the season, than one that loses speed versus the competition throughout the season.

Additionally, at this point we simply don’t know how / slow the car is… People arguing that it doesn’t look “extreme”… The “Zero Pod” Mercedes look extreme and it was a dud… Sometimes, simple is better

[mwillems]

I sort of addressed that "speed" of the car in a separate post, which questions how much has actually been "revealed" so far, which I think is almost nothing. I think some people are actually judging the car by it's sidepods to some degree as they are the only part we might have "expected" to see revealed in close to final form.

Agree about leaving development as late as you can for some teams but for others with cash to burn, which included Mclaren for a many seasons, you could have streams running to bring immediate gains and to bring long term gains, and they could be looking at the same areas and even working together, but there was a view to chasing championships with blank cheques and bringing parts as fast as you can, something we were known for. My point though is that we are not chasing a championship and we don't have a blank cheque anymore, no one does, but this mentality continues in what we expect to see from the car and how we expect to develop the car.

I think Stella's approach is brilliant, but it think it is even more brilliant in this era which elevates or highlights the benefits of his approach.

[Darth-Piekus]

All I am hoping for is for the team to start strong. We can't repeat the start of last year if the team targets for wins.

[Luscion]

Snippets from an interview with Stella - https://formu1a.uno/stella-la-vera-mcla ... resentata/

You mentioned that some parts of the car were not completed for your launch. I was just wondering if you could explain what these areas are and when you expect them to be on the car?

"These areas, rather than being specific, keep relatively general in nature, but actually have to do with improving aerodynamic performance, improving the mechanical side and interacting with the tires. We started these three key projects to make sure they had potential but we couldn't finalize all of them in time to have them on the launch MCL38. So they will most likely become upgrades for the first part of the season."

Do you think McLaren can fight with Red Bull for the title? Be close in terms of pace?

"I think at the beginning of the season, my expectation is that Red Bull will continue to enjoy a certain advantage. I say that because they didn't develop the car much last year, and I think it's reasonable to expect that they have accumulated, let's say, some knowledge and development last year and will take advantage of that from 2024. I think we have to look at ourselves, if we maintain the rate of development that we had in 2023, on the 2024 car then I think we can be in a strong position. Whether it will be enough to challenge Red Bull and the other top teams, who will certainly have made good improvements, we will find out."

Some of the innovations were not finalized in time, so were they originally planned for this car with the launch specifications? And when you talk about the ability to upgrade this car, do you have absolute conviction that the room for improvement is as wide as last year?

"In terms of innovations, I would say it's not that we haven't made it. I think more that some development projects haven't made it. But when you embark on some development projects, it may be that it is not as you would like since they depend on many related factors. Of course you want to complete them as soon as possible, let's say, but sometimes it's just a matter of time for projects to mature. Regarding the development of the cars, I think this year we will see that by adding lap time we will start to have diminishing returns, I would say for the first time with this new regulation. You know, for two years we have seen pretty steep progress, especially in aerodynamic development. But now I predict that toward the end of the season it will become more difficult for designers to be able to maintain a very high pace of development. That's why I was saying earlier that we can be competitive if we can maintain the pace of development that we have experienced in the last 12 months."

What is the planning for upgrades during 2024?

"In terms of preparation, what I can say is that we are in a development phase, so we will find out once we put the car on the track whether the data we see at the factory will be confirmed. Today we had a promotional event, a shooting day, plus it was also wet, so we didn't really gain valuable data from that point of view. We have taken steps forward that hopefully will keep us on the trajectory we started last year in Austria. We consolidated in Singapore and hopefully we will be in Bahrain along the same linear upward trajectory from a development standpoint. In terms of development there is a budget limit, and so it is important to plan your upgrades carefully because it could happen that you become limited in budget rather than development. Right now we are not limited by development. We're going to push as hard as we can in that and then once the parts or projects are mature, we'll see which ones to bring in and at that point we'll see if we're limited by budget or by our ideas/development."

In what areas of performance do you think the car has made progress? Can the drivers tell us how they felt the car today compared to simulator testing?

"You know, it's like we had three main goals. The first was to improve aerodynamic efficiency, the second was to improve mechanical grip, and the third was to improve tire interaction. Now I don't want to give proportions, but I would say that we managed to improve all three of these areas, although, as I said at the beginning, we see that there is potential for further improvement in each of these three areas. As for the drivers, I would let them comment, but I don't think we test the simulator in the wet."

[Darth-Piekus]

Personally I will be satisfied if the team is close to Red Bull at worst and delighted if they are even closer than last year. This start of the year is important.

[mwillems]

"In terms of development there is a budget limit, and so it is important to plan your upgrades carefully because it could happen that you become limited in budget rather than development. Right now we are not limited by development. We're going to push as hard as we can in that and then once the parts or projects are mature, we'll see which ones to bring in and at that point we'll see if we're limited by budget or by our ideas/development"

Exactly the point I was making about decisions in the budget cap era.

There is more time to be found than money to spend right now therefore your constraint is money.

The idea that winter testing and in season development are separate is no longer true. We work in budget cycles now.

[CjC]

Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.

Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??

[KimiRai]

Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.

Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??

Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time, did they just find out very recently?