This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
The number of people in this thread who were *certain* that the zeropod style could never work and are making a 180 based on a report that Red Bull will move in that direction is fascinating to me. Let's wait and see what actually happens.
I always believed in zeropods
What doesn't make sense is when mercedes said they found the ceiling in it and that they moved on from that
At the same time Allison says the ceiling is clear for the other concept too
Did mercedes see something in the other concept that mclaren and redbull have moved on from or mercedes tools didn't let them see the full potential of zeropods
Yes you did. And I was never one the people who said zeropods can never work. I just find it curious how many other users have completely switched their tone just based on this one report.
If Red Bull actually adobt a zeropod-concept that is similar to Mercedes and not just a more extreme version of what they already have, I would have so many questions... Lots of folks on the RB thread saying it's just down to the suspension/mechanical platform, but surely it couldn't be that simple? Mercedes has enough resources to have investigated that possibility and they decided to change *both* the suspension/make drastic changes to the chassis, *and* drop the zeropod. Surely they would have a good reason for doing so after two years of zeropod?
I always believed in zeropods
What doesn't make sense is when mercedes said they found the ceiling in it and that they moved on from that
At the same time Allison says the ceiling is clear for the other concept too
Did mercedes see something in the other concept that mclaren and redbull have moved on from or mercedes tools didn't let them see the full potential of zeropods
Yes you did. And I was never one the people who said zeropods can never work. I just find it curious how many other users have completely switched their tone just based on this one report.
If Red Bull actually adobt a zeropod-concept that is similar to Mercedes and not just a more extreme version of what they already have, I would have so many questions... Lots of folks on the RB thread saying it's just down to the suspension/mechanical platform, but surely it couldn't be that simple? Mercedes has enough resources to have investigated that possibility and they decided to change *both* the suspension/make drastic changes to the chassis, *and* drop the zeropod. Surely they would have a good reason for doing so after two years of zeropod?
Hamilton pressured them to make a car like RB.
Which, as of right now, was the right direction to have gone. Mercedes could not deliver with the zero sidepod, and RB could follow suit. It’s only the belief that Newey can get it right, that people are now changing their minds on that concept.
Yes you did. And I was never one the people who said zeropods can never work. I just find it curious how many other users have completely switched their tone just based on this one report.
If Red Bull actually adobt a zeropod-concept that is similar to Mercedes and not just a more extreme version of what they already have, I would have so many questions... Lots of folks on the RB thread saying it's just down to the suspension/mechanical platform, but surely it couldn't be that simple? Mercedes has enough resources to have investigated that possibility and they decided to change *both* the suspension/make drastic changes to the chassis, *and* drop the zeropod. Surely they would have a good reason for doing so after two years of zeropod?
Hamilton pressured them to make a car like RB.
Which, as of right now, was the right direction to have gone. Mercedes could not deliver with the zero sidepod, and RB could follow suit. It’s only the belief that Newey can get it right, that people are now changing their minds on that concept.
Yeah, but we don't really know what Newey is cooking so we have no idea if it's similar to Mercedes... I would be very surprised if they came to Japan with a concept that looked like the W13. But maybe I'll be proven wrong. Definitely a fun time to be an F1 tech fan
Yes you did. And I was never one the people who said zeropods can never work. I just find it curious how many other users have completely switched their tone just based on this one report.
If Red Bull actually adobt a zeropod-concept that is similar to Mercedes and not just a more extreme version of what they already have, I would have so many questions... Lots of folks on the RB thread saying it's just down to the suspension/mechanical platform, but surely it couldn't be that simple? Mercedes has enough resources to have investigated that possibility and they decided to change *both* the suspension/make drastic changes to the chassis, *and* drop the zeropod. Surely they would have a good reason for doing so after two years of zeropod?
Hamilton pressured them to make a car like RB.
Which, as of right now, was the right direction to have gone. Mercedes could not deliver with the zero sidepod, and RB could follow suit. It’s only the belief that Newey can get it right, that people are now changing their minds on that concept.
Well, that needs to be a very tentative position. The team that understood the concept best has seemingly abandoned it for more radical solutions, which is a red flag for new adopters. Also, it's very uncertain that RB will have a zeropod. They may have a radical concept involving the sidepod, but the "zeropod" title is likely just used to drive traffic to the article.
No team has had as much time to develop the car as Red Bull. They stopped further development of the RB19 early on and concentrated on the new season. It is not credible that you plan in such a way that you still have to start with an interim car, which requires additional resources. And no one believes that Newey accidentally didn't finish. Then Red Bull would have simply used a slightly updated RB19 for the first races. It is also not plausible that the presentation RB20 is so secretive about the air inlets and that the other innovations are also successfully hidden, although these can be photographed in detail in a few days anyway, but much more sensitive, detailed information about a B-Spec in a few months will be released to the public. That just doesn't make any sense.
No team has had as much time to develop the car as Red Bull. They stopped further development of the RB19 early on and concentrated on the new season. It is not credible that you plan in such a way that you still have to start with an interim car, which requires additional resources. And no one believes that Newey accidentally didn't finish. Then Red Bull would have simply used a slightly updated RB19 for the first races. It is also not plausible that the presentation RB20 is so secretive about the air inlets and that the other innovations are also successfully hidden, although these can be photographed in detail in a few days anyway, but much more sensitive, detailed information about a B-Spec in a few months will be released to the public. That just doesn't make any sense.
That's exactly what happened with W13
The zeropods was leaked weeks before and the numbers in the wind tunnel too
When something big is coming it always get leaked
Like the huge gains last year by Aston Martin were leaked almost 2 months before the season started
All those concepts related to "zero" give me a bad feeling. McLaren Honda and its "zero size": disaster. Mercedes and the "zeropod" skirt: disaster.
Not to mention the zero, zero, zero cocktails... which are the worst disaster.
I would be very surprised if RB decided on such an extravagance right now. I dont believe it.
Those from MB have always been very given to theatrics during training, classifications and statements before each race. During the Pre-Verstappen era they got bored of doing it.
They screwed up with their zeropods and general setup too, I think. Plus what an ordeal it must be to listen to LH's complaints for a long time. Tension that has ended up exploding.
During this year I believe that they will dedicate themselves to confirming certain deficiencies and I hope that they will also know the corresponding solutions.
For me the most interesting thing will be to see how Russell gets along with the car, its evolution and how and when they will adapt to each other.
I hope the engine will be wonderful and so will the rear suspension. It would be good news for Fernando.
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Yes you did. And I was never one the people who said zeropods can never work. I just find it curious how many other users have completely switched their tone just based on this one report.
If Red Bull actually adobt a zeropod-concept that is similar to Mercedes and not just a more extreme version of what they already have, I would have so many questions... Lots of folks on the RB thread saying it's just down to the suspension/mechanical platform, but surely it couldn't be that simple? Mercedes has enough resources to have investigated that possibility and they decided to change *both* the suspension/make drastic changes to the chassis, *and* drop the zeropod. Surely they would have a good reason for doing so after two years of zeropod?
Hamilton pressured them to make a car like RB.
Which, as of right now, was the right direction to have gone. Mercedes could not deliver with the zero sidepod, and RB could follow suit. It’s only the belief that Newey can get it right, that people are now changing their minds on that concept.
Did you really believe that Newey would change the winning car to something he is not sure will work? I don't. And i don't know if they really going to zero pods, but they already have 2 things on this new car that Mercedes abandoned. Vertical inlet, and those high shoulders. Zero pods or not, they already changing winning concept to something Mercedes abandoned. And I'm pretty sure they are convinced that works.
From the driver's perpective, Hamilton could obviously feel all the issues the car had, concerning its handling and perfomance. Judging by RB's all round performance and watching the behaviour of this car on the track, he and anyone else would take RB's concept into serious account and probably would consider this development direction attractive.
But RB's concept is not just about sidepods, the car's stable platform has to do with many aspects. After all, Hamilton, aligned with his engineers, had mentioned that they believed that the sidepods were not the reason behind the car's struggles (or at least not one of the main ones). I remember him saying that it would make no difference to their car if they bolted RB-like sidepods on and removed the so-called zeropods, which was obviously what the engineering team had concluded.
So, I see nothing wrong with Hamilton's suggestions to his team since they were related to the whole concept and not really to the sidepod part of it. For sure, his own feedback and experience, along with the information he was given by the team's engineers, shaped his opinion.
If RB turns to some zeropod-like solution in the future and makes it work, that will probably be owed to the rest platform supporting it. I guess it is too far fetched to believe that a zeropod solution would work with the platform Mercedes initially had (judging by our current knowledge).
Last edited by Heimdall on 20 Feb 2024, 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
One final point that everyone seems to have overlooked in this discussion of side pod architecture and packaging:
With the RB packaging, there is still a gigantic undercut, something the W13 and W14 never had. Not even the B-spec “lite” W14. That is a massive fundamental difference.
All those concepts related to "zero" give me a bad feeling. McLaren Honda and its "zero size": disaster. Mercedes and the "zeropod" skirt: disaster.
Not to mention the zero, zero, zero cocktails... which are the worst disaster.
I would be very surprised if RB decided on such an extravagance right now. I dont believe it.
Those from MB have always been very given to theatrics during training, classifications and statements before each race. During the Pre-Verstappen era they got bored of doing it.
They screwed up with their zeropods and general setup too, I think. Plus what an ordeal it must be to listen to LH's complaints for a long time. Tension that has ended up exploding.
During this year I believe that they will dedicate themselves to confirming certain deficiencies and I hope that they will also know the corresponding solutions.
For me the most interesting thing will be to see how Russell gets along with the car, its evolution and how and when they will adapt to each other.
I hope the engine will be wonderful and so will the rear suspension. It would be good news for Fernando.
It gives you a bad feeling if you are a Redbull fan. For me it’s music to my ears. Let them go down the route of where Merc has already trialed and failed. That is a risky decision if true. People always seem to forget the old sayiing; “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Sometimes when you derail from what made you successful you end up going backwards in a big way. To be honest when I heard Redbull going for a radical concept change last year it already gave me hope their domination might come to and end. Let’s see what happens this weekend and the next.
