Christian Horner under Investigation

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[f1jcw]

If it is pressure, it is very light.

[koolway]

She may well have texted him back, not because she was willing to but because of the power dynamics of a boss/employee relationship. That’s why you can’t behave in anything like the manner that’s been suggested with a subordinate, via company communication devices, or in company time. Even if it’s all kept out of the work place then it is a morally grey area because an employee more often than not feels compelled to keep the boss happy…

Sorry if it was not clear enough, but that’s my point too.
I was trying to explain how the boundaries can be pushed little by little, and how it’s not as easy for a victim to say stop and raise concerns immediately depending on multiple factors

[rijtuig]

The head scratching part for me is Horner flatly denying it. Why would he if there's such overwhelming proof as the media are stating? This is what casts doubt in my mind, there's a real possibility that what's being told by the media are grossly misrepresented or flat out false and even made up. Horner described the allegations as "nuts" when they first came out, if I'm remembering correctly. On the under hand, if the allegations of the sexting are correct, then maybe Horner is of the impression that whatever transpired was consensual between two adults? But the lady being a subordinate still paints a scenario of it an inappropriate situation, which he'll largely carry the blame for.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he also denied that Red Bull broke the budget cap in 2021 until it was shown that they didn't, didn't he?

Think that’s true but from what I have read too the cap rules are very complex with a lot of grey areas - he may well have though they were clear but the fia disagreed - then again I guess the same could be at play here in some form

Not sure, they have had access to the designated FIA team to guide them through. They are building hypermodern racing cars but lacked in that area? Pretty sure he played the game of denying until they had to come clean.

[littlebigcat]

The head scratching part for me is Horner flatly denying it. Why would he if there's such overwhelming proof as the media are stating? This is what casts doubt in my mind, there's a real possibility that what's being told by the media are grossly misrepresented or flat out false and even made up. Horner described the allegations as "nuts" when they first came out, if I'm remembering correctly.

The following is conjecture and in no way a judgement on Horner’s innocence or guilt.

The public statement could have been a required action as part as stalling. It is the only public statement from the two direct parties involved. If he, as has had been reported, offered a settlement this would include an NDA. So if such a settlement was accepted it looks like it never actually happened and Horner walks away still in his role.

Basically if you are guilty is doesn’t hurt to state you are innocent and it gives you room to play with.

[Watto]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he also denied that Red Bull broke the budget cap in 2021 until it was shown that they didn't, didn't he?

Think that’s true but from what I have read too the cap rules are very complex with a lot of grey areas - he may well have though they were clear but the fia disagreed - then again I guess the same could be at play here in some form

Not sure, they have had access to the designated FIA team to guide them through. They are building hypermodern racing cars but lacked in that area? Pretty sure he played the game of denying until they had to come clean.

No doubt anyone in his position would say the same until forced so point taken

https://speedcafe.com/mercedes-cost-cap ... omplexity/

But here even Toto talks about some of the complexities of the cap buying raw materials processing costs, the waste etc


I tend to think Horner is all but gone now though

[rijtuig]

I've got a feeling this got planned all along.

[littlebigcat]

They idea that this is a convoluted conspiracy to out Horner is a fantasy. If they wanted him out it would be far simpler.

Look at how Denis was removed from McLaren. You don’t need to do something the arguable damages the brand.

[Redragon]

If I receive a message unwanted, I give a note it is not ok to send me that message. If that person does it again I block. To make clear I don't want to receive that kind of messages. If she didn't block she was participating or gathering proof.

So you block your boss at the company?

Yes he can’t do nothing if they are unwanted messages you report to HR. As she probably did.

You give a chance explaining you don’t want those messages if he continues ai block him and report, i gave him the chance not to do it again. Now if she engaged for months, why she did it?! Because she wanted until she didn’t, because is gathering proof or it is fishing. You don’t engage for months with someone for no reasons

[littlebigcat]

If I receive a message unwanted, I give a note it is not ok to send me that message. If that person does it again I block. To make clear I don't want to receive that kind of messages. If she didn't block she was participating or gathering proof.

So you block your boss at the company?

Yes he can’t do nothing if they are unwanted messages you report to HR. As she probably did.

You give a chance explaining you don’t want those messages if he continues ai block him and report, i gave him the chance not to do it again. Now if she engaged for months, why she did it?! Because wanted until she didn’t, because is gathering proof or it is fishing. You don’t engage for months with someone for no reasons

Your logic here is flawed.

[Redragon]

So you block your boss at the company?

Yes he can’t do nothing if they are unwanted messages you report to HR. As she probably did.

You give a chance explaining you don’t want those messages if he continues ai block him and report, i gave him the chance not to do it again. Now if she engaged for months, why she did it?! Because wanted until she didn’t, because is gathering proof or it is fishing. You don’t engage for months with someone for no reasons

Your logic here is flawed.

So you let your boss to harass you for months?!

[koolway]

In real life, it’s a bit more complicated.
Your assumption is that such messages burst out of the gate.
Situation is evolving, message contents are evolving… you feel obligated to be polite because at first you’re not even sure of the true nature of it.
Even if you, as a victim, may think it’s funny and charming at first, and no harm is done… it doesn’t mean that anything done after that will be categorized as such.

You can find it creepy from the 1st occurrence. There’s no formula or roadbook to state if something is within the acceptable lines or not.

Let’s consider the “worst” scenario :
- they started flirting, she was ok with it…
- they even hooked up, she was still ok with it…
- she decides to stop, and he keeps on insisting for weeks or months…
that is still f…. up and problematic, no matter what you may think…

Now let’s consider a middle of the road scenario:
- he starts sending work related messages through a “private” channel
- she obliged and reply as a good employee would, using company phone….
- sometimes he drift to personal discussion “weather looks lovely in the coming days, any plans for the weekend?” (-> do you call hr from that point?)
- alternate work & personal, and push the boundary a bit more every time…
Add a little bit of particular context to it : one every other weekend, you’re both staying at a hotel abroad…
- be more and more personal…
- tell him to stop because it makes you feel “uncomfortable” (ie : f… off now! Stop it!)
- he doesn’t understand and continues…

Where do you draw the line?
In theory as soon as possible.
In practice… hard to judge for someone else and the context.

[littlebigcat]

So you let your boss to harass you for months?!

What I would do is irrelevant. Your exposition ignores well understood issues that arise through power and gender imbalances in workplaces.

[Big Tea]

Cant help but feel that without Horner it is down hill for Red Bull racing. Could take them a decade to recover with the new regs involved.
I know he does not personally roll up his sleeves, but he makes sure someone does

[Redragon]

So you let your boss to harass you for months?!

What I would do is irrelevant. Your exposition ignores well understood issues that arise through power and gender imbalances in workplaces.

No it doesn’t. My boss send me a relationship intention, sexual or nude or other message that i am not ok with. I let him/her know once as every other person, Politely, that that’s a boundary not to cross. He/she does again sorry but it is blocked and reported to HR. At least in my case. If you let him/her doing for months means the boundaries lines were not clear from the beginning.

If it was 30 years ago would understand gender and power Dynamics. But these days with new laws i don’t know why you will allowed for moths.