2024 car speculation

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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vorticism
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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scuderiabrandon wrote:
10 Sep 2023, 18:47
The undercut is a crucial area to generate good outwash to manage the wake. More outwash in this area could increase the strength of the floor fence vortex by pulling air out of the fences. I'd imagine you lose some forward floor pressurization by having the air funnel straight to the back, creating a lot of understeer. This would subsequently require a more cranked front wing to increase forward load, increasing overall drag.

By having a channel on the under side of the SP I believe you'll lose some floor performance and make it much harder to manage the front tyre wake, especially in yaw the car can become extremely unpredictable. The undercut is also crucial to feed floor edge treatments.
Agreed, it's making the W13 mistake in a different way, among other compromises. The novelty for me is you could drastically alter floor edge airflow based on sidepod shape versions. Sidepod/outboard engine cover would become the main tuned aero component per track. Currently this rarely if ever changed across a season, to any great degree at least.
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mariusdk
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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Afternoon All.

So, stupid question and not sure if it has been discussed.

With the waterslides on the car being a popular solution and Mercedes demonstrating that you could get away with a interesting design like the original zero pods were, in terms of packaging at least...would there be a solution that can take the MP4-26 U pods and mixes it with the zero pods?

Basically I am thinking the U Pods in 2024 dimensions, but with vertical intake for the radiators,similar to what Merc had on the zeropods. Then the rest of the U shape pods is purely used for airflow management, so no intakes beyond the ones attached to the tub?Also with a wing similar to what Merc had that covers the SIS and links the outside of the U pod with the rest of the car.

Ok, I have asked my stupid question, so take it easy please.

Have a great day.

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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A high aspect ratio horizontal intake is much preferred.

You want the air over the car to be as slow as possible and with the highest pressure. Accelerating air over the car creates lift. Low pressure over the car creates lift.

Downwashing sidepods with an underbite intake push the stagnation pressure of the inlet over the sidepod and provide a relativelu straight (unaccelerated) path over much of the car area, which remains high energy air untill it meets the beam wing.

Verticale inlets can work if the stagnation pressure is pushed over the extending floor like the w13.

I dont see a u shaped inlet do any of that

Giogio
Giogio
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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News about Alpine

gavingav1
gavingav1
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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2024 Williams

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vorticism
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Usable zeropods

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If there's any truth to the rumors that RB have developed something like a zeropod, then the first order of business for spectators is to make the concept work. RB will be demanding a better class of aero concept. So: how to do that? My proposition is simple. It entails a rethink of the floor regulations, and the return of an old friend to RB: rake. The simple proposition is to return to a flat or semi-flat floor and run the car with rake.

A flat or flatter floor means you lower the front floor edge and you might even eliminate the front floor ramp entirely, which means you largely eliminate the purpose of the large fully outwashing floor fences, which would then reduce the value of wide outwashing sidepods whose purpose are primarily to enhance the effectiveness of the fences. There are a few main reasons why the W13 concept didn't work that I'm unable to discuss here, but if you're interested in my views on that feel free to PM me.

Quick sketch below of an RB20 with flat(ter) floor and an emptied sidepod region. I would expect a full trailing body behind the crash-structure/"mid-wing" which will contain heat exchangers. Moving all of the heat exchangers above the engine might be possible but it entails a large shift in the CoG, but that isn't always an eliminating factor. Rake raised CoG, f.e. In this sketch, the shark mouth sidepod inlet is intended to be retained, as is the vertical slot beside it.

Image



The question is whether you can claw back enough DF from rake and/or unique floor shapes which do not require over-floor outwash accentuation.
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chrstphrln
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Re: Usable zeropods

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Sorry, but In how many threads should the same topic be discussed based on the same rumors?

Espresso
Espresso
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Re: Usable zeropods

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Euh…
First and foremost important question: “Which elements works best together with the mandatory floor”.
Within the regulations the RB20 is an evolution of old and new ideas. Newey has the ability to reinvent old ideas into a new concept.
And he did see an advantage in an adapted vertical sidepod design.

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vorticism
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Re: Usable zeropods

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Espresso wrote:
20 Feb 2024, 23:28
First and foremost important question: “Which elements works best together with the mandatory floor”.
You bring up a good point. Some details about what is mandatory: 1-4 fences per side, continuous surface with no holes or undercuts (like diffuser rules), no curvature smaller than R 25 mm, must be placed within the RV-Floor volume. The latter most is the interesting part. The RV-Floor volume is an odd shape itself but it doesn't need to be filled in any particular way, hence the suggestions above.

chrstphrln wrote:
20 Feb 2024, 23:07
Sorry, but In how many threads should the same topic be discussed based on the same rumors?
It doesn't belong in the RB20 thread and it's not team talk. Edit- I just remembered there's a 2024 car speculation thread that I started that it could be merged with. viewtopic.php?t=31127
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AR3-GP
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Re: Usable zeropods

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Sidepod seems reasonable, but I suspect the floor and rake ideas are too exotic.
A lion must kill its prey.

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lucafo
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Re: Usable zeropods

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Maybe there should have problems with exhaust heat.

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vorticism
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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No zeropods on RB20 yet so if the rumor is true then it may be for a B-spec version of RB20 for later in the season per the Autosport/motorsport.com article. Elements of which could be getting tested on a presumable A-spec. As suggested above the trick to getting a zeropod to work may be found by rethinking the floor. Thanks for the post move & thread compile, makes more sense here.
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vorticism
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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vorticism wrote:
20 Feb 2024, 19:34
My proposition is simple. It entails a rethink of the floor regulations, and the return of an old friend to RB: rake.

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mzso
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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Somehow I don't think rake will return. Especially that Newey quite clearly said that he thinks that the high rake approach is dead with these regulations.
I for one can't see how raising the floor edge can be compensated for, when the floor is the most significant part in creating downforce these days.

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vorticism
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Re: 2024 car speculation

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It would be a question of efficiency and this would be hard to ascertain without validation from wind tunnels, CFD, and real cars. I'm arguing the premise strictly on the variable definition of what a zeropod is. A true zeropod would imo look like:



A W13 type zeropod in a sense has already been attained by the RB20: both essentially have nothing above nor below the upper crash structure shroud (called the mid wing). So within the RV-sidepod volume there's "zero" stuff.

Another definition of the zeropod would be something more flow-through like the W13 or like what some call a double-floor. That's what I tried to make work, which would imo require a rethink of how to use the floor.
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