2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[CouncilorIrissa]

Tyre life data has some wild inconsistencies, I wouldn't take it for valid for any driver

Tire data is wonky in testing, yeah, but it looks pretty consistent for Sainz at least.

[CouncilorIrissa]

Why are you acting like the sf-23 didn't have some of the best degradation towards the end of last year? Mexico, Vegas, Abu Dhabi all showed arguably better degradation than RB on the softer compounds.

The progress should be considered compared to the sf-23 evo even if that makes laptime comparisons impossible

All three circuits featured C3-C5 and the car only worked with C5, maybe C4. The car never worked on C1-C2.

Also, PTSD.

[Sphere3758]

Why are you acting like the sf-23 didn't have some of the best degradation towards the end of last year? Mexico, Vegas, Abu Dhabi all showed arguably better degradation than RB on the softer compounds.

The progress should be considered compared to the sf-23 evo even if that makes laptime comparisons impossible

Also, those were specifically in Leclerc’s hands. Given the good performance of Sainz today, tomorrow’s evening session will be really intriguing.

It will be the only time we see both Max and Charles share a session during testing

[AR3-GP]

Why are you acting like the sf-23 didn't have some of the best degradation towards the end of last year? Mexico, Vegas, Abu Dhabi all showed arguably better degradation than RB on the softer compounds.

The progress should be considered compared to the sf-23 evo even if that makes laptime comparisons impossible

Also, those were specifically in Leclerc’s hands. Given the good performance of Sainz today, tomorrow’s evening session will be really intriguing.

It will be the only time we see both Max and Charles share a session during testing

Verstappen and Leclerc shared the track in the morning today.

[Xyz22]

Why are you acting like the sf-23 didn't have some of the best degradation towards the end of last year? Mexico, Vegas, Abu Dhabi all showed arguably better degradation than RB on the softer compounds.

The progress should be considered compared to the sf-23 evo even if that makes laptime comparisons impossible

Tyre life was better because the drivers also had to adjust their driving style in order to save tyres from being completely destroyed.
We are talking extremely cautious first few laps in every stint, especially with new tyres in outlaps, on top of huge setup works (that required months of analysis) and upgrades with the only aim of making the working window of the car bigger.

By having a stable platform from the get go in terms of behaviour and therefore degradation, Ferrari will be able to bring actual performance upgrades to the car, so this difference compared to the SF 23 launch spec is very significant.

[KimiRai]

In short, they were running the car much further from the limit (slower) compared to last year's race.

It does seem like that for a number of teams except red bull.

My prediction is Ferrari and Aston are going to be very close at least in one lap, degradation is yet to be seen in more detail

[AR3-GP]

Why are you acting like the sf-23 didn't have some of the best degradation towards the end of last year? Mexico, Vegas, Abu Dhabi all showed arguably better degradation than RB on the softer compounds.

The progress should be considered compared to the sf-23 evo even if that makes laptime comparisons impossible

Tyre life was better because the drivers also had to adjust their driving style in order to save tyres from being completely destroyed.
We are talking extremely cautious first few laps in every stint, especially with new tyres in outlaps, on top of huge setup works (that required months of analysis) and upgrades with the only aim of making the working window of the car bigger.

I sort of disagree with this. Did you watch the opening laps in Abu Dhabi and Las Vegas? If you think that was Charles Leclerc driving "extrememely cautious", I would again disagree. Ferrari drivers were not doing any tire dance towards the end of the season last year. Gap after 15 laps in AD as less than 2 seconds to Ver. He wasn't doing anything substantially different pace wise to Verstappen at the beginning in Las Vegas either.

Now if Ferrari can carry this degradation improvement to the harder tires, that would be a good accomplishment over last season. There was too much sliding on hard tires last year.

[dialtone]

yeah very good. Came out again and did another few laps in low 1.37.2-3 and now back to mid-high 1.37s on the same set of c3s that are now on 26 laps or approaching half race distance. That's good.

36+ laps on those tires, last lap still 1.37.6

I've taken a look at the data dumps by @f1debrief and found this statement to be incorrect (not surprising: 36 laps on C3s in Bahrain with constant times is world-beater territory).

Here's the link: [...]
In short, all three of 9-10 lap stints started on 10-lap old tires.

edit: ouch, it ended up being embedded. Even better

I suppose that's possible, according to the data he had 3 sets of tires that he brought to lap ~9, then pit on which he did fast laps. Then went into stint sim on each of those so that could be why, and I woke up when he started the sims so probably misunderstood what was going on.

I still think deg was good though.

First collated stint:

This is 19 laps of which 12 properly timed. 2 fast laps.

Second collated stint:

Also 19 laps, 13 timed. 3 fast laps.

Third collated stint:

18 laps, 11 timed. 3 fast laps.

Deg is very contained and mostly always below 1.38, in fact I think they somewhat tested the pace. At 1.38 deg is basically zero. At 1.37.5 deg is 0.5s every 10 laps. At 1.37.0 is also roughly 0.5 every 8-10 laps.

[Xyz22]

Why are you acting like the sf-23 didn't have some of the best degradation towards the end of last year? Mexico, Vegas, Abu Dhabi all showed arguably better degradation than RB on the softer compounds.

The progress should be considered compared to the sf-23 evo even if that makes laptime comparisons impossible

Tyre life was better because the drivers also had to adjust their driving style in order to save tyres from being completely destroyed.
We are talking extremely cautious first few laps in every stint, especially with new tyres in outlaps, on top of huge setup works (that required months of analysis) and upgrades with the only aim of making the working window of the car bigger.

I sort of disagree with this. Did you watch the opening laps in Abu Dhabi and Las Vegas? If you think that was Charles Leclerc driving "extrememely cautious", I would again disagree. Ferrari drivers were not doing any tire dance towards the end of the season last year. Gap after 15 laps in AD as less than 2 seconds to Ver. He wasn't doing anything substantially different pace wise to Verstappen at the beginning in Las Vegas either.

Now if Ferrari can carry this degradation improvement to the harder tires, that would be a good accomplishment over last season. There was too much sliding on hard tires last year.

Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas --> 0.7s slower than Verstappen
Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas after the pit stop with new tyres --> 0.9s slower than Verstappen first flying lap on hard tyres

Leclerc first lap in Abu Dhabi --> 1s slower than Max
Leclerc lap 2 in Abu Dhabi --> 0.4s slower than Max

[AR3-GP]

Tyre life was better because the drivers also had to adjust their driving style in order to save tyres from being completely destroyed.
We are talking extremely cautious first few laps in every stint, especially with new tyres in outlaps, on top of huge setup works (that required months of analysis) and upgrades with the only aim of making the working window of the car bigger.

I sort of disagree with this. Did you watch the opening laps in Abu Dhabi and Las Vegas? If you think that was Charles Leclerc driving "extrememely cautious", I would again disagree. Ferrari drivers were not doing any tire dance towards the end of the season last year. Gap after 15 laps in AD as less than 2 seconds to Ver. He wasn't doing anything substantially different pace wise to Verstappen at the beginning in Las Vegas either.

Now if Ferrari can carry this degradation improvement to the harder tires, that would be a good accomplishment over last season. There was too much sliding on hard tires last year.

Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas --> 0.7s slower than Verstappen
Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas after the pit stop with new tyres --> 0.9s slower than Verstappen first flying lap on hard tyres

Leclerc first lap in Abu Dhabi --> 1s slower than Max
Leclerc lap 2 in Abu Dhabi --> 0.4s slower than Max

The problem with only going by lap time is that it doesn't say how that time loss is distributed. As an example, Leclerc made 3 overtaking attempts on Verstappen on the 1st lap in Abu Dhabi. This paints a different picture to an "extremely cautious" 1 second slower lap. In fact he pushed all the way until T11 with Verstappen, then must have given up some time in the last sector with the dirty air. Still he pushed the tires for the first 2 sectors.

[Xyz22]

I sort of disagree with this. Did you watch the opening laps in Abu Dhabi and Las Vegas? If you think that was Charles Leclerc driving "extrememely cautious", I would again disagree. Ferrari drivers were not doing any tire dance towards the end of the season last year. Gap after 15 laps in AD as less than 2 seconds to Ver. He wasn't doing anything substantially different pace wise to Verstappen at the beginning in Las Vegas either.

Now if Ferrari can carry this degradation improvement to the harder tires, that would be a good accomplishment over last season. There was too much sliding on hard tires last year.

Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas --> 0.7s slower than Verstappen
Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas after the pit stop with new tyres --> 0.9s slower than Verstappen first flying lap on hard tyres

Leclerc first lap in Abu Dhabi --> 1s slower than Max
Leclerc lap 2 in Abu Dhabi --> 0.4s slower than Max

The problem with only going by lap time is that it doesn't say how that time loss is distributed. As an example, Leclerc made 3 overtaking attempts on Verstappen on the 1st lap in Abu Dhabi. This paints a different picture to an "extremely cautious" 1 second slower lap. In fact he pushed all the way until T11 with Verstappen, then must have given up some time in the last sector with the dirty air. Still he pushed the tires for the first 2 sectors.

Verstappen was extremely compromised in the first part of the lap due to a mediocre start. Leclerc exploited this opportunity without taking any huge risks.

Leclerc failed to stay within DRS in both Vegas and Abu Dhabi after 2 laps. Ferrari had a very cautious approach to the stints (slow introduction shouted by engineers multiple times every single race). It was the only way to keep the tyres alive through the entire stint.

Check Las Vegas restart after SC : )

[AR3-GP]

Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas --> 0.7s slower than Verstappen
Leclerc first flying lap in Vegas after the pit stop with new tyres --> 0.9s slower than Verstappen first flying lap on hard tyres

Leclerc first lap in Abu Dhabi --> 1s slower than Max
Leclerc lap 2 in Abu Dhabi --> 0.4s slower than Max

The problem with only going by lap time is that it doesn't say how that time loss is distributed. As an example, Leclerc made 3 overtaking attempts on Verstappen on the 1st lap in Abu Dhabi. This paints a different picture to an "extremely cautious" 1 second slower lap. In fact he pushed all the way until T11 with Verstappen, then must have given up some time in the last sector with the dirty air. Still he pushed the tires for the first 2 sectors.

Verstappen was extremely compromised in the first part of the lap due to a wrong start. Leclerc exploited this opportunity without taking any huge risks.

I understand what you are saying to a degree, but still the car was different. In Saudi Arabia it didn't matter how cautious they were. By the end of the season they could get a good stint on soft tires being somewhat cautious on the 1st 2 laps. It wasn't the same car.

[Xyz22]

The problem with only going by lap time is that it doesn't say how that time loss is distributed. As an example, Leclerc made 3 overtaking attempts on Verstappen on the 1st lap in Abu Dhabi. This paints a different picture to an "extremely cautious" 1 second slower lap. In fact he pushed all the way until T11 with Verstappen, then must have given up some time in the last sector with the dirty air. Still he pushed the tires for the first 2 sectors.

Verstappen was extremely compromised in the first part of the lap due to a wrong start. Leclerc exploited this opportunity without taking any huge risks.

I understand what you are saying to a degree, but still the car was different. In Saudi Arabia it didn't matter how cautious they were. By the end of the season they could get a good stint on soft tires being somewhat cautious on the 1st 2 laps. It wasn't the same car.

I never said they didn't make improvements with the car. The fact that they improved is absolutely clear but it was a combination of different factors:

- Different approach based on better knowledge of car limitations
- Working window of the car improved
- Better setups
- More confidence thanks to the latest floor

I repeat, check Vegas restart after SC

[AR3-GP]

Verstappen was extremely compromised in the first part of the lap due to a wrong start. Leclerc exploited this opportunity without taking any huge risks.

I understand what you are saying to a degree, but still the car was different. In Saudi Arabia it didn't matter how cautious they were. By the end of the season they could get a good stint on soft tires being somewhat cautious on the 1st 2 laps. It wasn't the same car.

I never said they didn't make improvements with the car. The fact that they improved is absolutely clear but it was a combination of different factors:

- Different approach based on better knowledge of car limitations
- Working window of the car improved
- Better setups
- More confidence thanks to the latest floor

I repeat, check Vegas restart after SC

I checked it but being the 2nd fastest car on the track, he was still going fast enough to keep ahead of 18 other cars. Cautious, but not that cautious.

[CouncilorIrissa]

You don't need to go far to see how limited the car was even post-Japan. Look up the entire Qatar weekend. Leclerc was practically tiptoeing.