FOTA agrees to drop KERS from 2010

[ISLAMATRON]

It requires unanimity to drop KERS and that may just not be on the cards.

KERS has been dropped by full agreement. It would take full agreement to bring it back.

Incorrect

[WhiteBlue]

It requires unanimity to drop KERS and that may just not be on the cards.

KERS has been dropped by full agreement. It would take full agreement to bring it back.

Incorrect

Islam is right. KERS is in the 2010 regulations. The FOTA seven (minus BMW obviously now) will need a unanimous agreement of the other five teams to drop it for 2010.

5.2 Other means of propulsion :
5.2.1 The use of any device, other than the 2.4 litre, four stroke engine described in 5.1 above and one KERS, to power the car, is not permitted.
5.2.2 With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.
5.2.3 The maximum power, in or out, of any KERS must not exceed 60kW.
Energy released from the KERS may not exceed 400kJ in any one lap.
Measurements will be taken at the connection to the drivetrain.
5.2.4 The amount of stored energy in any KERS may not be increased whilst the car is stationary during a race pit stop.
Release of power from any such system must remain under the complete control of the driver at all times the car is on the track.
The KERS may not be operated whilst the car is travelling above 300km/h.
5.2.5 All KERS energy storage devices must be situated between the front face of the engine and the driver's back when viewed in lateral projection. When establishing the front face of the engine, no parts of the fuel, oil, water or electrical systems will be considered.
5.2.6 Cars must be fitted with homologated sensors which provide all necessary signals to the SDR in order to verify the requirements above are being respected.

[Richard]

It requires unanimity to drop KERS and that may just not be on the cards.

KERS has been dropped by full agreement. It would take full agreement to bring it back.

Incorrect

Islam is right. KERS is in the 2010 regulations. The FOTA seven (minus BMW obviously now) will need a unanimous agreement of the other five teams to drop it for 2010.

I was referring to the collective approach of FOTA teams. Yes, the rules allow for KERS, but the FOTA teams agreed to not take up that option. So it would take a unanimous decision by FOTA for the FOTA teams to use KERS.

As for non-FOTA members, Williams is only suspended, I expect them back in the fold now the Concord agreement is signed.

I doubt the three new teams would want to break the FOTA line because they'll be relying on the FOTA teams for support in case they need a deal like Brawn or Schumacher.

So that's why I expect KERS to require unanimity across the grid.

[ISLAMATRON]

FOTA is majority rule, not by unanimous decision... so they say, in actuality it is whatever Ferrari says and Toyota agrees with.

[Richard]

FOTA is majority rule, not by unanimous decision... so they say, in actuality it is whatever Ferrari says and Toyota agrees with.

I stand corrected,I thought FOTA worked on concensus?

Anyway the point still stands, whilst FIA rules allow KERS, it won't happen without FOTA formally voting on changing the FOTA decision.

[ISLAMATRON]

did you even read?

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 4439.shtml

Williams seems to care not about FOTA shmota as BE puts it.

[alexbarwell]

Is the bigger issue that KERS has been a disappointment and a particularly expensive white elephant because it has been so restricted; the weight and undeveloped technology has hampered and the fact the stored energy is so limited and rationed usage seems to have prevented the development and innovation that has been so looked for; look at the rush to develop the double diffusors when they were found to be advantageous. They are turning their backs on an opportunity, but only because that chance has been watered down so much.

[xpensive]

To the best of my understanding, the intoduction of KERS served two basic purposes, to help overtaking with a "push-to-pass", as well giving F1 a "greener" image.

I think the 400 kJ capacity was selected to give the desired 60 kW (80 Hp) for some six seconds, not much else.

The xtreme cost and complexity of such a system was soon realized by most teams in FOTA, why they wanted to stall for furter evaluation, but for some reason BMW insisted.

I think the "push-to-pass" could have been far easier achieved by a six second rpm-increase, which is what they do in the IRL as we speak, and from a "greener" viewpoint, 400 kJ is nothing really.

An unlimited KERS, eliminating conventional brakes on all wheels would be technically xiting, but the complexity a nightmare, completely out of reach for the smaller teams.

[WhiteBlue]

Without the DDD rules --- KERS would have not been an issue. It was always to be more important in the second half of the season as we see now. Without it Hamilton would not have a winning car right now.

[xpensive]

I might be the ignorant one here, but I fail to see the connection between the DDD's and KERS?

[PNSD]

Agreed.

KERS has not only aided racing but perhaps it has more so adversly effected racing. ala Vettel getting stuck behind a Mclaren or Ferrari.

DDD or not that still would have been the case. For KERS to properly work, or at least to see the effects all teams should have adopted it.

KERS has just as much prevented overtaking as much as aided it. It would be interesting to note the number of times a KERS car has overtaken in race conditions. That means forgetting the race start.

[Richard]

An unlimited KERS, eliminating conventional brakes on all wheels would be technically xiting, but the complexity a nightmare, completely out of reach for the smaller teams.

That sounds interesting. It may be pure fantasy now, but small steps now can lead to big things in the future. "Induction braking" has a ring to it.

[Richard]

did you even read?

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 4439.shtml

Williams seems to care not about FOTA shmota as BE puts it.

Good link, thanks.

I read it as posturing for position. It opens by saying we can do what we want ignoring FOTA. Then it ends with "All of that said, we naturally work closely with all the teams in the sport to contribute to the best regulatory environment for F1."

Flagging that they are continuing with KERS development is raising the price for getting back into FOTA. It says "make it worth our while to drop KERS" or it could be saying "we'll come back if you agree keep KERS"

It all depends on how much Williams need FOTA, and how much FOTA need most the teams on board.

To be honest, I saw the Williams capitulation to FIA as a sign of weakness for Williams. If I've read that right, then Williams will be back in FOTA before 2010.

[xpensive]

While knowingly running the risk of repeating myself into absurdity, it's something like that you need to make KERS viable.

A 700 kg car reducing its speed from 250 to 100 km/h, five times over one lap, is still only 7000 kJ of kinetic energy.

At the same time, an F1 car spends more than 500 kJ of wheel-energy per second when at full power.

One liter of gasoline holds 34 000 kJ and the car spends some 3.5 to 4 liters per lap.

In a way Mario Theissen was right on KERS, but you need to let the dogs out of their boxes.

[pjobmathew]

Well i wanted to see KERS with unlimited power , greatly increased usage time per lap , but a limited battery size .