BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

[SZ]

Timbo, you'd never find disagreement that if they were doing better in the WCC that they'd be less likely to quit... not only is it more marketable to be winning, but there's more money in direct revenues.

What I'm saying is 'flip the coin' - given they're having a sh*t year, what would F1 need cost (them) to have them stay? Noone enters racing betting on outright success every year - same with BMW.

Let's wait. Would be glad to see Sauber guys on board for next year. Is it possible that Mario stays?

We shouldn't underestimate the possibility that BMW stays - or that this isn't a political move on their part to force the FIA's/FOTA's hand on a few key cost issues. But Super Mario is an M Sport man for life, methinks.

[xpensive]

Xcuse me for knowingly fishing around a little bit here, but is it possible that not the entire BMW board were convinced in 2005 that it was such a good idea to enter F1 as a complete works-team, rather than as an engine and technology supplier?

That Theissen already had his enemies within BMW from the word go, just waiting for an opportunity to strike back?

[SZ]

Xcuse me for knowingly fishing around a little bit here, but is it possible that not the entire BMW board were convinced in 2005 that it was such a good idea to enter F1 as a complete works-team, rather than as an engine and technology supplier?

That Theissen already had his enemies within BMW from the word go, just waiting for an opportunity to strike back?

Theissen has his enemies but he's far from the whole BMW-Sauber operation. Getting rid of one inidividual's far easier than nuking an entire F1 operation... just ask Honda!

[SZ]

[quote="

Xcuse me for knowingly fishing around a little bit here, but is it possible that not the entire BMW board were convinced in 2005 that it was such a good idea to enter F1 as a complete works-team, rather than as an engine and technology supplier?

That Theissen already had his enemies within BMW from the word go, just waiting for an opportunity to strike back?

Theissen has his enemies but he's far from the whole BMW-Sauber operation. Getting rid of one individual's far easier than nuking an entire F1 operation... just ask Honda!

[xpensive]

Difficult this perhaps, but Theissen's person was not my point, my thinking was more in line that the whole idea of entering an entire team was possibly questioned from the beginning by parts of the top brass?

Which could make some sense when you think about it, it was agains BMW tradition in f1 to begin with and if you don't win, there's nobody else to blame?

[SZ]

Doubt it, it's probably more rising cost/diminished revenues as we're losing/walking sponsors/races moving from core markets/target customers more interested in green performance than 'we always hated and now we can nuke it'.

On the FIA's side of culpability, the rule changes were mighty expensive and largely haven't done anything other than throw most team's development way of and cost a lot of money now that KERS is going and the cars have significantly more downforce and rear end upwash than they were supposed to. Whilst, of course, those not fans of their company's involvement now more than ever had a compelling argument to kick up a fuss, it's a board of directors that make a decision, not any minority that voted against to start with. It's a bit like saying 'did BMW get rid of Chris Bangle because there were people that always hated his designs?' Sure there are, but a whole board signed off on them.

The board - just like Honda's, Renault's, Ferrari's etc... is responsible for shareholder interests. If it isn't making money and it doesn't look like it will, it goes. Or, eventually, they do.

Though as stated it could all be a political gambit too. My that Concorde agreement came out awfully quickly after BMW made an announcement... we'll see what it says and how they respond. A few interesting days ahead.

[xpensive]

What Chris Bangle did to the once so elegant and successful 7-series is unforgivable to my mind. The 5 is not much better either me thinks.

Would never buy neither, no matter how many F1 races they would have won.

[SZ]

See?! That's the point - he's head of design, sure, but a whole team of designers under his design come up with and design concepts, and a whole board of people that have nothing to do with design sign off on them (his TED presentation - free to download - is pretty good viewing). And if it isn't going to sell, they don't do it - Bangle left BMW a far more successful company than when he arrived.

I'd not buy one as I'd really wanted an E30 M3 and they've not some something so compact an light in a long while... with the current M3 closer to two tonnes than one and far more bloated than the original M5, maybe F1 really isn't for BMW's image anymore!

[flynfrog]

Why do you think a cap isn't good for F1, or, more to the point, for BMW? Their actions this week shows they won't compete under the current rules at any price - why do you think it wouldn't have been equitable to do so at a lower price?

How much money do you really think it should take to go racing in F1 under the current rules - or what would have to change about the rules themselves? I don't want to argue with you as to right and wrong - I just want to hear your original thoughts on it. Go on... what's your number and why.

1. The cap is not enforceable please explain how you plan to find the money is some of the most secretive companies in the world.
2. the racing will not deiced the championship it will be a court.
3. Teams will either reduce cost on there own or leave F1 just like any other business let the market set the price.


How much should it cost to race in F1. As much as it takes. If you really want to reduce costs open up the tech regs. Right now teams are spending way to much money to gains 100s with open regs they could spend less for more time.

Bring back variables like different engines different tires ect. Have engineers come up with the rules not lawyers.


How do you think a budget cap will save F1? Unless you want to see global indy car

[ISLAMATRON]

Good news, Sauber working on takeover

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77496

[timbo]

Good news, Sauber working on takeover

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77496

Good news indeed. Let's hope it would work!

[ISLAMATRON]

Good news, Sauber working on takeover

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77496

Good news indeed. Let's hope it would work!

But he says he does not want to be team manager

[xpensive]

Hardly surprising, is it now? BMW must have learned something from Honda's costly xperience?
Besides, Peter Sauber still owns 20% of the outfit, which should be worth a little more in terms of assets then it was back in 2005?

[timbo]

But he says he does not want to be team manager

Quite understandably I'd say.
Of course it's a question who's gonna be up to a task. That's why I asked about Mario's position, maybe he would risk and stay with the team?

[ISLAMATRON]

But he says he does not want to be team manager

Quite understandably I'd say.
Of course it's a question who's gonna be up to a task. That's why I asked about Mario's position, maybe he would risk and stay with the team?

For the right price I'm sure he could be persuaded to.