Christian Horner under Investigation

[mendis]

Weird accusation…

Ford at this point has been making this about their values. Unless they want to be seen as approving what RBR/RB are doing they have to go to the public, also the only way to put pressure if RB doesn’t want to come to judgement.

If there is no official word on the issue by Red Bull, is Farley reacting to public rumours? Is that how you suppose their values work? Make public statement on hearsay.

That’s irrelevant. They lamented to have been kept in the dark about what is happening so RBR and RB are ignoring them. What other recourse do they have? Sit there silently while they feel mistreated and think their value under threat?

What Ford is doing is too boringly logical. RB on the other hand is a farce, not because they haven’t kicked horner out, or kept him, but because this nonsense is still going on, the most dimwit PR person could tell that you want this stuff solved quickly.

It's not irrelevant. It's amateurish and stupid if that's how a CEO handles an issue with his partners as honestly it's disrespectful to the partners. Hence, the report is rubbish.

[dialtone]

If there is no official word on the issue by Red Bull, is Farley reacting to public rumours? Is that how you suppose their values work? Make public statement on hearsay.

That’s irrelevant. They lamented to have been kept in the dark about what is happening so RBR and RB are ignoring them. What other recourse do they have? Sit there silently while they feel mistreated and think their value under threat?

What Ford is doing is too boringly logical. RB on the other hand is a farce, not because they haven’t kicked horner out, or kept him, but because this nonsense is still going on, the most dimwit PR person could tell that you want this stuff solved quickly.

It's not irrelevant. It's amateurish and stupid if that's how a CEO handles an issue with his partners. Hence, the report is rubbish.

The reports in the media DO NOT MATTER to Ford, don’t be naive. I’ll repeat, they have been kept in the dark, they don’t like it. They really have 2 options: dissolve the partnership or put pressure. They tried pressure in private and didn’t work, they then go to the media.

This is mindbendingly boringly normal. Every company does this. In some cases they are able to go to lawsuits if laws were broken or file complaints with the government for other types of violations (anti trust and such).

Spend some time thinking about what they could do, and give yourself the answers that you know RB/RBR has given, total silence.

EDIT: I'll rephrase, Ford just invested IP and money and resources in a partnership with RBR, presumably expecting to be in a peer relationship. The **CEO** of the company they invested in is currently under threat to be unseated and they have so far been kept in the dark about this whole thing. I wouldn't even care what happened in reality, it doesn't matter, what would piss me off is how I've been kept in the dark, because if that's how RBR does business with partners then I don't want to be in business with them. This is probably what Ford is thinking now.

[mendis]

That’s irrelevant. They lamented to have been kept in the dark about what is happening so RBR and RB are ignoring them. What other recourse do they have? Sit there silently while they feel mistreated and think their value under threat?

What Ford is doing is too boringly logical. RB on the other hand is a farce, not because they haven’t kicked horner out, or kept him, but because this nonsense is still going on, the most dimwit PR person could tell that you want this stuff solved quickly.

It's not irrelevant. It's amateurish and stupid if that's how a CEO handles an issue with his partners. Hence, the report is rubbish.

The reports in the media DO NOT MATTER to Ford, don’t be naive. I’ll repeat, they have been kept in the dark, they don’t like it. They really have 2 options: dissolve the partnership or put pressure. They tried pressure in private and didn’t work, they then go to the media.

This is mindbendingly boringly normal. Every company does this. In some cases they are able to go to lawsuits if laws were broken or file complaints with the government for other types of violations (anti trust and such).

Spend some time thinking about what they could do, and give yourself the answers that you know RB/RBR has given, total silence.

EDIT: I'll rephrase, Ford just invested IP and money and resources in a partnership with RBR, presumably expecting to be in a peer relationship. The **CEO** of the company they invested in is currently under threat to be unseated and they have so far been kept in the dark about this whole thing. I wouldn't even care what happened in reality, it doesn't matter, what would piss me off is how I've been kept in the dark, because if that's how RBR does business with partners then I don't want to be in business with them. This is probably what Ford is thinking now.

Try the alternative. If you are the CEO of Ford and got to know of this through hearsay? Would you react publicly? Do you think you are in a relationship where the other side isn't trustworthy, despite talks and now you want to make a public statement. Is that the kind of CEO you want to be?

Another scenario. You are the CEO of Red Bull GmbH and your partner, CEO of Ford wants to know if his "investment" is safe, given it's subsidiary Red Bull Racing "appears" to be having an issue involving it's CEO. What would you tell him? Go f*** yourself, I can't give you any assurances of this partnership continuing, even if it means I incur bad publicity for Red Bull GmbH and also face liabilities and consequences of breaking deal with you?

[Luscion]

It's not irrelevant. It's amateurish and stupid if that's how a CEO handles an issue with his partners. Hence, the report is rubbish.

The reports in the media DO NOT MATTER to Ford, don’t be naive. I’ll repeat, they have been kept in the dark, they don’t like it. They really have 2 options: dissolve the partnership or put pressure. They tried pressure in private and didn’t work, they then go to the media.

This is mindbendingly boringly normal. Every company does this. In some cases they are able to go to lawsuits if laws were broken or file complaints with the government for other types of violations (anti trust and such).

Spend some time thinking about what they could do, and give yourself the answers that you know RB/RBR has given, total silence.

EDIT: I'll rephrase, Ford just invested IP and money and resources in a partnership with RBR, presumably expecting to be in a peer relationship. The **CEO** of the company they invested in is currently under threat to be unseated and they have so far been kept in the dark about this whole thing. I wouldn't even care what happened in reality, it doesn't matter, what would piss me off is how I've been kept in the dark, because if that's how RBR does business with partners then I don't want to be in business with them. This is probably what Ford is thinking now.

Try the alternative. If you are the CEO of Ford and got to know of this through hearsay? Would you react publicly? Do you think you are in a relationship where the other side isn't trustworthy, despite talks and now you want to make a public statement. Is that the kind of CEO you want to be?

Another scenario. You are the CEO of Red Bull GmbH and your partner, CEO of Ford wants to know if his "investment" is safe, given it's subsidiary Red Bull Racing "appears" to be having an issue involving it's CEO. What would you tell him? Go f*** yourself, I can't give you any assurances of this partnership continuing, even if it means I incur bad publicity for Red Bull GmbH and also face liabilities and consequences of breaking deal with you?

What exactly are you saying is hearsay?

[dialtone]

It's not irrelevant. It's amateurish and stupid if that's how a CEO handles an issue with his partners. Hence, the report is rubbish.

The reports in the media DO NOT MATTER to Ford, don’t be naive. I’ll repeat, they have been kept in the dark, they don’t like it. They really have 2 options: dissolve the partnership or put pressure. They tried pressure in private and didn’t work, they then go to the media.

This is mindbendingly boringly normal. Every company does this. In some cases they are able to go to lawsuits if laws were broken or file complaints with the government for other types of violations (anti trust and such).

Spend some time thinking about what they could do, and give yourself the answers that you know RB/RBR has given, total silence.

EDIT: I'll rephrase, Ford just invested IP and money and resources in a partnership with RBR, presumably expecting to be in a peer relationship. The **CEO** of the company they invested in is currently under threat to be unseated and they have so far been kept in the dark about this whole thing. I wouldn't even care what happened in reality, it doesn't matter, what would piss me off is how I've been kept in the dark, because if that's how RBR does business with partners then I don't want to be in business with them. This is probably what Ford is thinking now.

Try the alternative. If you are the CEO of Ford and got to know of this through hearsay? Would you react publicly? Do you think you are in a relationship where the other side isn't trustworthy, despite talks and now you want to make a public statement. Is that the kind of CEO you want to be?

Another scenario. You are the CEO of Red Bull GmbH and your partner, CEO of Ford wants to know if his "investment" is safe, given it's subsidiary Red Bull Racing "appears" to be having an issue involving it's CEO. What would you tell him? Go f*** yourself, I can't give you any assurances of this partnership continuing, even if it means I incur bad publicity for Red Bull GmbH and also face liabilities and consequences of breaking deal with you?

If the CEO of a partner comes knocking, you answer. There’s no other way to keep the partnership. In my previous line of work I negotiated a joint venture with a huge japanese company. If they wanted to talk with my CEO they could, if we wanted to talk with the CMO of said company, they would answer. Not doing so was basically automatic dissolution. Telling either CEO to F off was unlikely going to result in drinks and karaoke after work.

Ford has done nothing wrong here so they don’t owe anything to anyone. We can have a laugh at how could RBR impact the values of a huge business like Ford, but that’s not for us to establish who Ford should do business with or how. Once again there is a real investigation and a real threat of dismissal of the CEO of the business they partnered with, this isn’t hearsay and they are in the dark. Ford may leave this deal, it’s a real possibility now.

[FW17]

The reports in the media DO NOT MATTER to Ford, don’t be naive. I’ll repeat, they have been kept in the dark, they don’t like it. They really have 2 options: dissolve the partnership or put pressure. They tried pressure in private and didn’t work, they then go to the media.

This is mindbendingly boringly normal. Every company does this. In some cases they are able to go to lawsuits if laws were broken or file complaints with the government for other types of violations (anti trust and such).

Spend some time thinking about what they could do, and give yourself the answers that you know RB/RBR has given, total silence.

EDIT: I'll rephrase, Ford just invested IP and money and resources in a partnership with RBR, presumably expecting to be in a peer relationship. The **CEO** of the company they invested in is currently under threat to be unseated and they have so far been kept in the dark about this whole thing. I wouldn't even care what happened in reality, it doesn't matter, what would piss me off is how I've been kept in the dark, because if that's how RBR does business with partners then I don't want to be in business with them. This is probably what Ford is thinking now.

Try the alternative. If you are the CEO of Ford and got to know of this through hearsay? Would you react publicly? Do you think you are in a relationship where the other side isn't trustworthy, despite talks and now you want to make a public statement. Is that the kind of CEO you want to be?

Another scenario. You are the CEO of Red Bull GmbH and your partner, CEO of Ford wants to know if his "investment" is safe, given it's subsidiary Red Bull Racing "appears" to be having an issue involving it's CEO. What would you tell him? Go f*** yourself, I can't give you any assurances of this partnership continuing, even if it means I incur bad publicity for Red Bull GmbH and also face liabilities and consequences of breaking deal with you?

If the CEO of a partner comes knocking, you answer. There’s no other way to keep the partnership. In my previous line of work I negotiated a joint venture with a huge japanese company. If they wanted to talk with my CEO they could, if we wanted to talk with the CMO of said company, they would answer. Not doing so was basically automatic dissolution. Telling either CEO to F off was unlikely going to result in drinks and karaoke after work.

Ford has done nothing wrong here so they don’t owe anything to anyone. We can have a laugh at how could RBR impact the values of a huge business like Ford, but that’s not for us to establish who Ford should do business with or how. Once again there is a real investigation and a real threat of dismissal of the CEO of the business they partnered with, this isn’t hearsay and they are in the dark. Ford may leave this deal, it’s a real possibility now.

Specially if this is a power grab by Oliver Mintzlaff on Christin Horner's RBR. Ford does not have to stand by this dismissal of Christin Horner without a proper reason or a cooked up allegation.

Oliver Mintzlaff certainly has not counted on Ford going public, quiet possibly he has never even heard of Jim Farley.

[Wouter]

In about 48 hours it is already Mediaday in Bahrain.

I hope RB will soon announce something about the future of Horner at RBR.

[boiler]

Why is Ford even sticking their nose into this right now? Outside of the hardcore fans the majority of the people that follow F1 have no clue they will be writing Redbull a check in TWO years, I agree this smells like Ford is laying the ground work to turn tail and get out without losing face..... Farley needs to focus on fixing Fords quality not what a team they have nothing to do with right now is investigating internally....

[f1jcw]

What stinks is F1 fans attacking Ford just cause they the temerity to tell their partner to get on with resolving the issue and stop making it lookbad that. They are pouring a lot of money into NOW, not in 2 years time.

Blaming Ford is just a distraction, to obsticate the issue.

[organic]

Why is Ford even sticking their nose into this right now? Outside of the hardcore fans the majority of the people that follow F1 have no clue they will be writing Redbull a check in TWO years, I agree this smells like Ford is laying the ground work to turn tail and get out without losing face..... Farley needs to focus on fixing Fords quality not what a team they have nothing to do with right now is investigating internally....

What do you mean sticking their nose in? The procedure so far has been imo highly irregular. Why publicise this investigation halfway through and then have essentially radio silence on it from RB themselves for over a month ? I'm just not following the logic and I think ford are struggling as well. Due to the association every day it continues besmirches their name too which they've built up over the past century, especially for them as Horner was a key player in bringing the Ford-RB partnership about

They have every right to put pressure on RB

[f1jcw]

Lifted from elsewhere

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/ ... s/ford/f1/

[SoulPancake13]

At the very least, I think we can all agree that the whole thing has been handled quite bizarrely. I don't blame Ford for wanting answers - however if even Ford can't get any answers from Red Bull, I doubt we will get them any time soon.

[boiler]

Why is Ford even sticking their nose into this right now? Outside of the hardcore fans the majority of the people that follow F1 have no clue they will be writing Redbull a check in TWO years, I agree this smells like Ford is laying the ground work to turn tail and get out without losing face..... Farley needs to focus on fixing Fords quality not what a team they have nothing to do with right now is investigating internally....

What do you mean sticking their nose in? The procedure so far has been imo highly irregular. Why publicise this investigation halfway through and then have essentially radio silence on it from RB themselves for over a month ? I'm just not following the logic and I think ford are struggling as well. Due to the association every day it continues besmirches their name too which they've built up over the past century, especially for them as Horner was a key player in bringing the Ford-RB partnership about

They have every right to put pressure on RB

Like I said outside of the die hard fans the majority of people that tune in on the weekends have no clue Ford will be writing a check in TWO years, no one brought Ford into this except Ford from a PR standpoint this makes no sense at all unless they are pursuing an angle we are not privy to in their contract with RB. If SHTF they can say we spoke up and nothing was done so bye bye RB.

For third parties sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut especially when you have no say in the matter.

[taperoo2k]

Honda still there delivering to AMR aren’t they?

Ford have more to lose pulling out. It would leave RB without someone to develop the battery side however

Ford's brand image comes before all else, they'll look for other ways to get back into F1 if the Red Bull deal falls through. It's Red Bull Racing who have more to lose here, if Ford pull out it doesn't leave them with a lot of time to get a new hybrid system up and running before 2026. Ford has the expertise with hybrid and battery systems, Red Bull Power Trains do not.

Fords brand image has been meh for years in the motoring industry. Just have to look at their wet belt engines and ‘eco-boom’ engines to see what’s happened there.

I’ve no idea what eV/hybrid stuff Ford has brought to the market.

Ford have had a string of harassment cases filed against them in the US in the past decade. This is the CEO's way of showing Ford has a zero tolerance approach within the company itself and its partners to not condone or ignore harassment. I also know Ford are looking to cut costs.

It's not that hard to find what hybrid technology Ford has on the market.
https://www.ford.com/powertrains/hybrid/
EV Ford Transit vans have been around for a while now.
https://www.ford.co.uk/vans-and-pickups/e-transit

Ford threatening to pull out of the deal is Ford flexing its muscles to get the situation resolved. Ford can afford to walk away; Red Bull can't afford for the deal to collapse. It could well make the difference between Red Bull being able to challenge the top manufacturers like Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda, Renault etc or ending up with a poor Power Unit that leaves them playing catch up for years.

Put it this way if the Ford deal isn't cancelled but the PU is poor? I doubt Ford would put up with Red Bull Racing taking pot shots at them in the media as happened to Renault.

As for the investigation not being concluded swiftly? I expect it'll be because Red Bull GmbH will want to avoid a costly and lengthy case in the UK's Employment tribunal system.
https://www.judiciary.uk/courts-and-tri ... -tribunal/

[dans79]

Like I said outside of the die hard fans the majority of people that tune in on the weekends have no clue Ford will be writing a check in TWO years, no one brought Ford into this except Ford from a PR standpoint this makes no sense at all unless they are pursuing an angle we are not privy to in their contract with RB. If SHTF they can say we spoke up and nothing was done so bye bye RB.

I have to disagree with this point, the partnership was covered by several non f1 centric news outlets.

for exmaple:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4275 ... an-horner/