Red Bull RB20

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Andi76
Andi76
428
Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

hollus wrote:
28 Feb 2024, 13:57
Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2024, 12:39
hollus wrote:
28 Feb 2024, 08:08


That’s not true, its thermal conductivity is as good as for any other air, considering air as substance.
It might be worse for cooling, but only because you will be carrying less of it to the radiator, and then removing it a bit slower.
Your heat conduction is fine, your heat convection is less effective, though, compared to faster, more laminar air.

Wrong? Not really. because it is about the cooling properties of precisely this type of air, which for certain reasons has a poorer thermal conductivity. So, what you are pointing out is exactly what I am actually saying and calling thermal conductivity ---> it dissipates less heat and is therefore bad for cooling, because of its properties. But there is more to consider. The air will not flow faster than the vehicle if the duct is blocked further down the line, which is the case with radiator ducts. It is therefore all the more important that the air flows in quickly where the intake air has a high velocity or high static pressure. If I feed in turbulent air with little energy, it will flow partially or even completely backwards, which is why this air is even less suitable for cooling.
Yes, yes, I think we agree on the principles and we are discussing semantics.

You are an engineer (I am guessing) and think of the radiator first and foremost. Yes, turbulent air is worse at removing heat from it.
I am a chemist, think of the air itself first, and I would like to clarify that it is because of a difference in convection and not in thermal conductivity (a well defined concept with precise definitions).

Non turbulent air gives you more air for removing heat, but not “better” air, just more new air and shorter “contact” times.

In any case it appears that Newey is dead set on using all the best “high energy” air for aero and all the worst “low energy” air for cooling.

Which makes me think, can it be that Red Bull has a locked in advantage in radiator design? Better alloys, narrower passages, exchanger aero flow or similar.?

We’ll know soon if it was the right compromise.
Yes, we really do :D

We'll see what Red Bull is doing here. It is possible that Honda has made a significant leap in terms of cooling. Otherwise it is not possible that Red Bull could make such compromises, because it is a fact that with this air, air with lower total pressure (similar to the front wheel wake) gets to the radiators and they can't really work with it. Therefore, I don't believe that the inlets behind the driver's helmet have anything to do with cooling, as this would hardly be present and this would be to the detriment of the CoG. It is much more likely that the aim here is to minimize aerodynamic losses or for internal flow conditioning. At the end of the day, I think too much fuss is made about it anyway. Because if you look closely at the pictures of the probable cooling inlets from certain perspectives, they are not much smaller in total than 2023. But packed in such a way that the undercut could be made "bigger" and better yaw/pitch inertia values could be achieved with only a slight increase in CoG, so that a performance gain was made. And in my opinion, this is a "simple" evolution from 2023, cleverly and well implemented and with good ideas. But in the end, it's simply a clever continuation of what was already partly done in 2023. Just the next logical step. A step, however, that others would have had to think of first (which would probably not have been the case for some or would have lacked the courage to do so).

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Image

Piola / motorsport.com

Pretty good view of the HXs here. I'm inclined to think that the entire installation is not that much shorter (fore-aft) rather that the rads are now narrower yet longer. Just a guess. It would fit with their other mass centralization efforts;

--centerline rad divided and moved forward (vs RB19)
--FW adjuster inboard
--sidepod rads flipped 180* (these dual pass radiators now have their return sides facing outward, on both side of the car this can be seen, with the collectors/connex now inboard)
--and now potentially the additional narrowing of these sidepod rads; narrowing them would bring mass inboard
--will they eventually move the steering rack backward as McLaren have?
Last edited by vorticism on 28 Feb 2024, 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
𓄀

f1rules
f1rules
597
Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Image

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

+1 I was noticing in some of the earlier shots that the front floor and fences look remarkably similar to last year, and that seems to be the case here. Perhaps another clue that this is the A-spec car.
𓄀

User avatar
scuderiabrandon
102
Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

vorticism wrote:
28 Feb 2024, 16:18
+1 I was noticing in some of the earlier shots that the front floor and fences look remarkably similar to last year, and that seems to be the case here. Perhaps another clue that this is the A-spec car.
The most inboard fence is stepped which I believe was inspiration taken from Ferrari. Regarding th floor fences in general, most teams who brought updates floors throughout last season has kept their fence philosophy to a larger extent, some micro detail changes. I think were set on this area of the car for the most part.

Same goes for the edge wings, we've seen nothing new yet, teams have evolutionized this area or merged two different concepts we've already seen.
Last edited by scuderiabrandon on 28 Feb 2024, 16:28, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Thought they were going to completely redesign all of the cooling on the sides by the first race cause zero-pods :roll: Just fold up the arrangements and attach with flex tape.
Honda!

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

re: brandon, RB18 had the last major change to the fences iirc. Started the season with the doubled outer fences, then moved to this "RB19" format. If they are to be introducing anything radically different in B or C spec versions of RB20 then the fences will have to change. If the rumors are true, of course. As we know from the other thread, here rumors equate to not only evidence but proof.

dren wrote:
28 Feb 2024, 16:27
Thought they were going to completely redesign all of the cooling on the sides by the first race cause zero-pods :roll: Just fold up the arrangements and attach with flex tape.
Shhhh, shhhhh 🤫. Flex tape is what holds the W15 together. Don't let the cat out of the bag so early in the season.
𓄀

Venturiation
Venturiation
98
Joined: 04 Jan 2023, 19:48

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post


User avatar
AMG.Tzan
43
Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 01:35
Location: Greece

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Venturiation wrote:
28 Feb 2024, 16:52
They surely must have made a lot of changes to the floor!

1,5 seconds of improvement can’t have come just by changing the radiators…
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

Venturiation
Venturiation
98
Joined: 04 Jan 2023, 19:48

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Image

abhi1200
abhi1200
35
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 08:16

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Image

Image

Image

Venturiation
Venturiation
98
Joined: 04 Jan 2023, 19:48

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Amus
Image

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Unusual place for kiels/pitots:

Image
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
yinlad
28
Joined: 08 Nov 2019, 20:10

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
28 Feb 2024, 22:59
Unusual place for kiels/pitots:

https://i.postimg.cc/YCtYZX6K/image.png
checking for cockpit/cooling losses coming up and over the 'sausages' I suspect.
Edit: on second glance they are further outboard than I initially thought
MVRC - Panthera

FDD
FDD
80
Joined: 29 Mar 2019, 01:08

Re: Red Bull RB20

Post

Sidepod air intake and undercut flow viz.

https://img.hotimg.com/Untitled94e1278bf1d1701b.png