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Vettel is a similar case. He couldn't do much without a dominant car that was to his taste.
Sorry, but there's crap and there's so bad that, as Lando said, "at its most problematic this meant having to “learn every single corner how to drive the car in a different way”.
Daniel did just fine in the slow AF HRT and in some not very fast Torro Rosso's.
Vettel is a similar case. He couldn't do much without a dominant car that was to his taste.
Sorry, but there's crap and there's so bad that, as Lando said, "at its most problematic this meant having to “learn every single corner how to drive the car in a different way”.
Daniel did just fine in the slow AF HRT and in some not very fast Torro Rosso's.
Sorry, but there's crap and there's so bad that, as Lando said, "at its most problematic this meant having to “learn every single corner how to drive the car in a different way”.
Daniel did just fine in the slow AF HRT and in some not very fast Torro Rosso's.
That doesn't go against what I said. Lando was just better.
Being better able to cope with an trustworthy car doesn't automatically mean he's a better driver.
We get it, you’re a huge Ricci fan and I share the sentiment. But fact is, he totally lost his way at Macca. Blaming the car is hardly the right call. He’s a fast driver but clearly with a fairly one dimensional driving style. He’s fast just not very adaptable otherwise he’d have stacked up better against LN in his time there.
He stacked up well initially against MV at RB but got resoundingly beaten in the last year with Red Bull. He’s good, just not a great imho
That doesn't go against what I said. Lando was just better.
Being better able to cope with an trustworthy car doesn't automatically mean he's a better driver.
We get it, you’re a huge Ricci fan and I share the sentiment. But fact is, he totally lost his way at Macca. Blaming the car is hardly the right call. He’s a fast driver but clearly with a fairly one dimensional driving style. He’s fast just not very adaptable otherwise he’d have stacked up better against LN in his time there.
He stacked up well initially against MV at RB but got resoundingly beaten in the last year with Red Bull. He’s good, just not a great imho
I am, but I'm also realistic. I personally know a couple of race car drivers and I know how a bad car can sap confidence. Racing is as much about the mental games as it is talent - you need to trust the car to drive at 10/10ths. You only need to look at what happened to Lando last year when he was on the limit, the car bit him on the a$$ multiple times.
And that last season at RBR was hampered by the Renault PU, especially in the second half of the season - he had 8 DNF's. Despite that, he had 2 wins and finished no worse than 6th in the completed races.
I am, but I'm also realistic. I personally know a couple of race car drivers and I know how a bad car can sap confidence. Racing is as much about the mental games as it is talent - you need to trust the car to drive at 10/10ths. You only need to look at what happened to Lando last year when he was on the limit, the car bit him on the a$$ multiple times.
What I thought was odd is that Ricciardo never crashed the Mclaren. It suggested he didn't know what to do with the car, not that he lacked confidence in it. He was rarely ever out of shape or anything. Just didn't drive it the way it needed to be driven except for one race in the entire stint at Mclaren, the race he won. Go figure.
I am, but I'm also realistic. I personally know a couple of race car drivers and I know how a bad car can sap confidence. Racing is as much about the mental games as it is talent - you need to trust the car to drive at 10/10ths. You only need to look at what happened to Lando last year when he was on the limit, the car bit him on the a$$ multiple times.
What I thought was odd is that Ricciardo never crashed the Mclaren. It suggested he didn't know what to do with the car, not that he lacked confidence in it. He was rarely ever out of shape or anything. Just didn't drive it the way it needed to be driven except for one race in the entire stint at Mclaren, the race he won. Go figure.
His race engineer spent the 2 years trying to change his natural driving style too, which would not have helped. If you are having to consciously think your way around every corner, you aren't going to be on the absolute limit.
I am, but I'm also realistic. I personally know a couple of race car drivers and I know how a bad car can sap confidence. Racing is as much about the mental games as it is talent - you need to trust the car to drive at 10/10ths. You only need to look at what happened to Lando last year when he was on the limit, the car bit him on the a$$ multiple times.
What I thought was odd is that Ricciardo never crashed the Mclaren. It suggested he didn't know what to do with the car, not that he lacked confidence in it. He was rarely ever out of shape or anything. Just didn't drive it the way it needed to be driven except for one race in the entire stint at Mclaren, the race he won. Go figure.
His race engineer spent the 2 years trying to change his natural driving style too, which would not have helped. If you are having to consciously think your way around every corner, you aren't going to be on the absolute limit.
Yes at this point I understand that this was the problem. I don't believe the Mclaren was an unstable car or one that the driver lacked confidence in. I just think Daniel couldn't imitate the lines that made it fast, except for a handful of weekends. One time in Australia (go figure), and another time when he won (again, go figure ). There's a great driver in there somewhere. He needs to forget the last few years and punch onwards.
What I thought was odd is that Ricciardo never crashed the Mclaren. It suggested he didn't know what to do with the car, not that he lacked confidence in it. He was rarely ever out of shape or anything. Just didn't drive it the way it needed to be driven except for one race in the entire stint at Mclaren, the race he won. Go figure.
His race engineer spent the 2 years trying to change his natural driving style too, which would not have helped. If you are having to consciously think your way around every corner, you aren't going to be on the absolute limit.
Yes at this point I understand that this was the problem. I don't believe the Mclaren was an unstable car or one that the driver lacked confidence in. I just think Daniel couldn't imitate the lines that made it fast, except for a handful of weekends. One time in Australia (go figure), and another time when he won (again, go figure ).
Lol, yeah but Im sure I saw Lando comment that the car was great in a straight line, it just didnt like to go around corners and that was after upgrades last year. Imagine how bad it was in the previous 2 years when it was even slower!
“Basically, the car only likes to go in a straight line. I mean, it doesn't even go very quick in a straight line either! But we're very good under braking, in straight line braking, which is why we were so quick in the wet at times.
I think Daniel and Lando describe the issues he had pretty well:
Ricciardo has used the word “weird” to describe the behaviour of the McLaren, and his predecessor Carlos Sainz expressed similar sentiments. Norris acknowledges that the current machine has its quirks.
“Yeah, it’s just like certain things you expect as a driver,” he says. “You expect that when you turn the wheel like this or when you do certain things you kind of expect or you feel like you should know exactly what’s going to happen.
“But that isn’t always the case, like sometimes you would brake less and the car rotates more, or grips more. And other times you brake more, and then that also does it. It’s very confusing at times. A particular corner it you have to do it one way the next corner you have to drive it in a different way.
“It’s not like every corner this is exactly how you have to drive which I think is what makes it so difficult. Because to find the limit on every corner you have to change your driving style for every corner anyway. Like I guess it’s probably easier for Daniel to say because he came from Renault and from Red Bull.
“As a driver, you always have certain expectations for when you steer this amount, the car rotates this amount and then you throttle on it does this and whatever. But just at times, it always just feels a little bit disconnected, like you expect to do one thing, and it doesn’t quite do it.
“So then go on your throttle or your brake or whatever and something doesn’t feel connected, let’s say. But then you just have to, I guess adapt to it. I guess that’s simple as saying that, but you have to adapt to that, and make the most of it and just kind of figure out how to drive the car the best way like that.”
The bottom line is that whatever the issues, Norris has dealt with them much more successfully, and consistently, than his team mate.
“The thing is during different weekends, the car changes,” he says.
Riccardo I think can be a very quick driver in the right car But no doubt has weaknesses I don't think he's really challenge Max. But because he seems to like cars ion a similar style to Max pointy front end I think he would probably push Max a little more than Checco
The Ricciardo bashing is tiresome. At least give him the credit he deserves and look at the actual facts... the guy when in a car he likes is top tier.
- Yas Marina 2010 Young drivers test over 1.3 seconds quicker than Vettel's pole time the day before
- Beat 4 x WDC Vettel in 2014 including 3 wins in clearly not the best car. Only non Merc driver to win a race that year. Alonso labelled him unbelievable and Hamilton said he was one of the best drivers on the grid. https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24239/9412584/a
- Laureus World Sports Award for Breakthrough of the Year in April 2015
- 2015 Top Gear test track fastest F1 driver ahead of Hamilton. Yeah some don't rate it but he set the same time pretty much 3 laps in a row and was 2.2 secs faster than the Stigs best time.
- 8 times F1 race winner should have been 9 but robbed by a poor pitstop in Monaco in 2016 after leading easily. Spectacular wins at China 2018, Hungary 2014 and Monaco 2018 where he had an ERS failure and lost 150hp with 50 laps to go and had to set the brake bias forward to stop the rears catching fire. Basically managing a multitude of issues that could have easily put him in the barrier. Marko said it was a masterpiece of driving and said he thought noone else could have done it.
- Alonso rated Dan as the best driver on the grid in 2016
RBR and now AT have heaped praise on him as well. Tost and Bayer have him in high regard.
Yes he had a difficult time at McLaren but to say he is overrated, old (look at Lewis and Fernando) and making out that he hasn't done anything special is just nonsense. Clearly as shown with RBR when he returned to the factory in the sim he had to revert back to his natural driving style. Simon Rennie and Horner basically said his driving style was unrecognisable it had changed so much to try and adapt to the uniquely odd handling McLaren. To say he is not adaptable due to one car philosophy is nonsense when its the only car he ever had trouble in after years of driving all sorts of classes of car.
As for 2018 he had a huge number of car issues after Monaco that impacted his season. Its well documented and adjusted WDC scores taking this into account had Max adn Dan very close on points.
Max only had 2 not at fault Dnfs, 2 FP sessions where his car did not allow him to take part and 1 back of the grid start.
List of all the 2018 issues Dan had with is car. It was quite ridiculous
SUMMARY OF RELIABILITY ISSUES.
Summary 8 DNFs, 6 Back of grid or large grid drops, Multiple qualifying failures, Issues in mutiple FP sessions that affect weekend preparation, 2 Races running lower Spec ICE (20bhp down on spec a)
RICCIARDO 2018 RELIABILITY SUMMARY:
Australia - 3 Place grid penalty
Bahrain - Race - DNF - Battery Failure
China - FP3 - Gear box issue with complete engine turbo failure. Misses FP3 with qual set up heavily affected.
Baku - Race - DNF - Collision with Verstappen forces Ricciardo to retire. Racing incident.
Monaco - Race- RIC - MGU-K failure
Canada - FP2 - Power unit issue, missus 60% of session
France - Race - front wing failure During race. Problem not diagnosed till post race. Heavy tire deg
Austria - Race -DNF - RIC loss of 3rd position with MGU-k Failure
Britain - Qual - DRS failure during Qualification
Germany - Prerace - RIC takes new engine for weekend and incurs full grid pen (1st Instance)
Germany - Prerace - Forced to Run Spec A ICE - 15-20 BHP down on B spec that Verstappen is running
Germany - Q - Does not take part in Q2 penalty
Germany - R - DNF - MGU-k failure - 5th position lost due to nature of track (hence decision to take penalty) and Vettel retirement
Hungary - Prerace - RIC - Forced to Run Spec A ICE - 15-20 BHP down on B spec that Verstappen is running
Hungary - Qual - RIC - RBR send RIC out late in which heavy rain starts leaving RIC out of Q3
Spa - FP1 - RIC missus session with engine injector issue
Spa - Race - DNF - RIC retires due to collision beyond his control.
Monza - Prerace - RIC takes new engine for weekend and incurs full grid pen (2nd Instance)
Monza - Q- RIC does not take part in Q2 due to new engine (Spec C)
Monza - Race - DNF - Clutch failure - 6th position lost
Singapore - All Sessions - Spec C engine clipping issues.
Russia - FP1 - RIC suffers car issue missing 70% of session
Russia - Qual - Engine Penalty, Forced to start at back of Grid (3rd instance)
Russia- Race - Debris on first lap damages front wing of Ricciardo causing high tire deg affecting greatly race pace
Japan - Qual - RIC - Throttle actuator failure - Misses Qualification.
Japan - Race - Back of grid start due to reliability (4th instance)
Brazil - Qual - +5 Place (6th instance of Grid drop) grid drop due to new turbo charger replacement
Abu-Dhabi - FP3 - Misses part of FP3 with Water leak.
Abu-Dhabi - Race - Horrible strategy in race leaves him out waiting for safety car that would never come.
It remains to be seen if he can recapture any of his previous high levels of performance but he has shown enough at the RB19 test and in the VCARB to warrant more time particularly given he is a proven race winner and has a very high performance ceiling when comfortable in a car.
Dan knows what a good car should handle like and can steer development in the right direction. Renault even praised Dan for his help developing the car which improved alot with Dan's input esp in 2020.
""It's not also a necessity, let's be honest, as I'm not fighting for any championship as we stand here right now. It would make absolutely no sense, and Daniel will be involved in the development process of the car." https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/renau ... 2/4981642/
“I think there is no doubt about the progression of the team this year. It’s very much a credit to Daniel who’s been clearly leading the charge of the team and behind him a group of people and a group of mechanics and engineers who are doing a remarkable job on track.
“Off-track, obviously we know Daniel is a great ambassador, is a team leader. He has clearly been instrumental to the changes that we’ve done last year when we had altogether a disappointing season.
Even Red Bull talked about his valuable input again recently
"Waterhouse went on to reveal how Daniel Ricciardo’s unique position within the team allows him to contribute significantly during simulation sessions.
The Australian driver possesses valuable insights into the preferences and requirements of Red Bull’s drivers when it comes to car setups."
"Max Verstappen says he is “still guessing” how to set up his Red Bull Formula 1 car and is relying on teammate Daniel Ricciardo while he builds experience with the team."
Asked whether he is leaning on Ricciardo for this, Verstappen replied: “Definitely. He has a lot of experience.
As for getting beaten by Tsunoda. Not really. Lets look at race by race
Head to Head
Hungary
Ricciardo Race - 1, Qualli - 1
Spa
Sprint
Ricciardo Race - 1, Qualli -1
Main Race
Tsunoda Race -1 , Qualli - 1
USA
Sprint
Ricciardo Race - 1, Qualli -1
Main Race
Tsunoda Race -1 , Qualli - 1
Mexico
Ricciardo Race -1 (Leave as is due to Tsunoda getting a perfect run with strategy and red flag, had a chance to beat Dan given this if he was quick enough if not for the crash with Oscar. However given the radio transcript it seems Dan was managing the gap near the end.
Qualli -1 (However discount this as Yuki didn't properly qualify)
Brazil
Tsunoda Qualli -1
Race (Can't call due to Ricciardo getting taken out by Hulks tyre. However even being a lap down he caught up to Tsunoda within 20 laps and was told to stay behind him. He was very fast in the race.
Las Vegas
Ricciardo Race - 1, Qualli - 1 (Even though Yuki DNF'd the race Ricciardo was comfortably ahead at the time even starting further back.
Abu Dhabi
Tsunoda Race - 1, Qualli - 1
Totals:
Tsunoda
Race - 3
Qualifying - 4
Ricciardo
Race - 5
Qualifying - 4
Pretty even if you ask me even could arguably give DR the nod all the while recovering from a hand injury and not having a preseason or full year with AT either.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story...
That doesn't go against what I said. Lando was just better.
Being better able to cope with an trustworthy car doesn't automatically mean he's a better driver.
We get it, you’re a huge Ricci fan and I share the sentiment. But fact is, he totally lost his way at Macca. Blaming the car is hardly the right call. He’s a fast driver but clearly with a fairly one dimensional driving style. He’s fast just not very adaptable otherwise he’d have stacked up better against LN in his time there.
He stacked up well initially against MV at RB but got resoundingly beaten in the last year with Red Bull. He’s good, just not a great imho
"We get it, you’re a huge Ricci fan and I share the sentiment."
<--- Are you really claiming you share the same sentiment of being a huge Ricci fan also? I am slightly confused by this statement.
"But fact is, he totally lost his way at Macca. "
<---- Redbull themselves said Ric picked up terrible driving habits that they never saw before on not just Ric but any racing driver. Ric himself never had these driving traits in the 2009, 2010 or 2013 rebull tests 2 years at Torro Rosso or the 5 years driving for Redbull. (thats 10 years of telemetry in many different cars, V8, V6, blown diffuser etc etc) The fact Redbull looked at the telemetry and clearly said these driving habits (picked up driving the Mclaren) had to be "completely unlearnt" and were a "terrible", and a "slow" way to drive a racecar shows clearly Ric did not lose his way at all but Mclaren did designing such a terrible car that needed such odd driving habits to drive it. I am slightly confused why a "huge Ricci fan" would completely ignore the redbulls telemetry statements on Rics driving style completely, but instead claim Ric has "1 dimensional driving style"
"He’s fast just not very adaptable"
<------- Ric was smashing lap record times in the 2009, 2010, and 2013 redbull tests. Not to mention the 2023 RBR silverstone test (rusty as as hadn't driven a f1 car since the year before even, and was quicker than perez after a few laps and would have been on the front row. (that's serious serious adaptability ) Not to also mention the HRT, the Torro Rosso adaptability . Also the Renault beating the Hulk in his first year something Sainz was not able to adapt to and do.
Then destroying Ocon 15/2 in qualifying and in race pace . Again Alonso never destroyed Ocon by these margins which suggests Ric adapted much better than Alonso even in that Renault when comparing both to Ocon. Ric proved he is 1 of the most adapatble drivers in 2009 (testing) , 2010 , 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 and the 2023 (testing) . That is a pretty obvious fact. So i am slightly confused why a "huge Ricci fan" would say the complete opposite in relation to Rics adaptability over the years? A driver with a "1 dimensional driving style" "who was "not adaptable" would not have adapted to so many F1 cars over the years.
"He stacked up well initially against MV at RB but got resoundingly beaten in the last year with Red Bull. He’s good, just not a great imho"
<------ Ric in his 3rd year was ahead at the mid season break with 2 wins China and Monaco to his name. He also got the only 2 pole positions that year in redbull. Ric though had 8 retirements, 0 his fault that year. But yep lets call that Max "resoundingly beat him and Ric is not a great." Are statements like this really something a huge Ricci fan would say? I guess huge Ric fans come in all shapes and sizes as they say
Ayrton Senna: Pure driving, pure racing, that´s what makes me happy.
Being better able to cope with an trustworthy car doesn't automatically mean he's a better driver.
We get it, you’re a huge Ricci fan and I share the sentiment. But fact is, he totally lost his way at Macca. Blaming the car is hardly the right call. He’s a fast driver but clearly with a fairly one dimensional driving style. He’s fast just not very adaptable otherwise he’d have stacked up better against LN in his time there.
He stacked up well initially against MV at RB but got resoundingly beaten in the last year with Red Bull. He’s good, just not a great imho
"We get it, you’re a huge Ricci fan and I share the sentiment."
<--- Are you really claiming you share the same sentiment of being a huge Ricci fan also? I am slightly confused by this statement.
"But fact is, he totally lost his way at Macca. "
<---- Redbull themselves said Ric picked up terrible driving habits that they never saw before on not just Ric but any racing driver. Ric himself never had these driving traits in the 2009, 2010 or 2013 rebull tests 2 years at Torro Rosso or the 5 years driving for Redbull. (thats 10 years of telemetry in many different cars, V8, V6, blown diffuser etc etc) The fact Redbull looked at the telemetry and clearly said these driving habits (picked up driving the Mclaren) had to be "completely unlearnt" and were a "terrible", and a "slow" way to drive a racecar shows clearly Ric did not lose his way at all but Mclaren did designing such a terrible car that needed such odd driving habits to drive it. I am slightly confused why a "huge Ricci fan" would completely ignore the redbulls telemetry statements on Rics driving style completely, but instead claim Ric has "1 dimensional driving style"
"He’s fast just not very adaptable"
<------- Ric was smashing lap record times in the 2009, 2010, and 2013 redbull tests. Not to mention the 2023 RBR silverstone test (rusty as as hadn't driven a f1 car since the year before even, and was quicker than perez after a few laps and would have been on the front row. (that's serious serious adaptability ) Not to also mention the HRT, the Torro Rosso adaptability . Also the Renault beating the Hulk in his first year something Sainz was not able to adapt to and do.
Then destroying Ocon 15/2 in qualifying and in race pace . Again Alonso never destroyed Ocon by these margins which suggests Ric adapted much better than Alonso even in that Renault when comparing both to Ocon. Ric proved he is 1 of the most adapatble drivers in 2009 (testing) , 2010 , 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 and the 2023 (testing) . That is a pretty obvious fact. So i am slightly confused why a "huge Ricci fan" would say the complete opposite in relation to Rics adaptability over the years? A driver with a "1 dimensional driving style" "who was "not adaptable" would not have adapted to so many F1 cars over the years.
"He stacked up well initially against MV at RB but got resoundingly beaten in the last year with Red Bull. He’s good, just not a great imho"
<------ Ric in his 3rd year was ahead at the mid season break with 2 wins China and Monaco to his name. He also got the only 2 pole positions that year in redbull. Ric though had 8 retirements, 0 his fault that year. But yep lets call that Max "resoundingly beat him and Ric is not a great." Are statements like this really something a huge Ricci fan would say? I guess huge Ric fans come in all shapes and sizes as they say
I share the sentiment in that I really did rate him as a driver. But it’s fair to say his form at MCL was abysmal, you cannot put that all down to the car. That’s way to convenient an excuse when your teammate doesn’t like the car either but makes it work.
I sincerely hope he has rediscovered his prior speed but Yuki so far seems to have been on a par with him. I stand by my statement that hes probably a little one dimensional driving style wise. The great can drive around issues, the good can’t.
Yes, I’m still a Ricci fan and defended him for a long time when he was with us at Macca but it was the right call to part ways. But am a fan of him as a person and being “last of the late brakers”. We need him to do well in this sport, the guy is ace.
Sorry, but there's crap and there's so bad that, as Lando said, "at its most problematic this meant having to “learn every single corner how to drive the car in a different way”.
Daniel did just fine in the slow AF HRT and in some not very fast Torro Rosso's.
). There's a great driver in there somewhere. He needs to forget the last few years and punch onwards.
) Not to also mention the HRT, the Torro Rosso adaptability . Also the Renault beating the Hulk in his first year 
