Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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lkocev
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Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 08:34

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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I personally feel sorry for Piquet. I always have. I don't think Flavio ever put him in that seat with the intention of ever allowing him to prove his worth. I think it was probably just to milk some kind of sponsorship money.

Sure Piquet was mediocre most of the time, but I would agree that when you are put in the position he was put in, it doesn't help you make the most. Its kind of like saying "Here you go lad, I want you to give us all you got, just don't beat your team mate" ... Thats how it seems to me. Of course he could have found a way to prove his worth, but to do that would have taken more than his best abilities, effectivley he would have had to move heaven and earth.

I think this is a result of poor driver management really... Pay bananas, get monkeys, provide --- equipment, get --- results. Constantly have that Grojean cunt parading around him wouldn't have helped either. Piquet was never in an environment encouraging him into success, now I feel really sorry for him because everyone thinks he is a whinger. I think he is just telling it how it is.

SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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vall wrote:It may not be the best article in the world but says many true things.

Complaining about less testing makes no sense to me, especially in his case. A F1 driver should be able to adapt to the car after half a day testing. This is what happens when the first test in Dec after a long break. Piguet did lots of testing 2007, then raced full time in 2008 and 2009. He's got enough experience. As I said, he has not shown any improvement. Ok, he may not get the same cat as FA for some races, but even when he had the same, he miserably failed to match FA. Just look at his results, even only at the races they have the same equipment if you wish....
No buddy, it doesn't. It's a poorly written article and it underestimates many things.

You cannot even think of being competitive in a normal race when your car is 0.5s off your teammate's. Forget about it. You'll qualify like ---, get backed up in traffic, get saddled with a car that's overweight and a bus to drive. You spend your race chipping away hoping for yellow flags and a good gamble on changing weather. That's not spending your time racing. That's spending your time waiting to take part in a freak spectacle.

Half day's testing after the break my ass. No F1 driver adapts to a car that quickly. Particularly in 2009 where rules changed, and performance markers would have too regards what the cars were supposed to stop, go and handle like. Performance markers then probably changed very rapidly as teams sorted their cars out. Renault looks like it had a lot of sorting to do. Limiting testing for young drivers hurt a lot. Half day's testing, ha ha. The first half day's testing after the break is a shakedown. The first week of testing is the team sorting out the car. Then data goes back to the team about how their new car performs and where performance needs to be developed. When your first update parts come back, you're going somewhere. This is the same in any racing category with a new vehicle. If you're not the driver handed responsibility at the start, the car isn't developed to your preferences. If you're not there when the first update parts arrive, you've no feel for where the handling qualities and development potential's headed. Given there's no testing in season, from there on in you're basically pissing in the wind and hoping for the best. Ever seen any news bites about Renault having something to match McLaren's simulator for drivers to develop the car pre-season or in-season with? Me neither (anyone's welcome to post up a link here proving me wrong).

What's more if you're right, why did FA need the vast majority of testing? He's got even more experience. Your logic is flawed.

So far as I can tell this season, FA has had an updated car the majority of the time. The - what - two races he's had the same car, the Renault was so phenomenally quick that FA didn't make points either.

There's no doubt relations between Piquet and his team have been a bit sour. Doesn't help, sure.

There's also no doubt that he didn't enter F1 as a rich millionaire playboy looking for a hobby or as an engine manufacturer's condition of sale - he is a legitimately quick, young driver as proven in feeder classes. No legitimately quick driver entering F1 - given a good chance in a decent car - has ever failed. None ever will. Piquet wasn't given a fair shot, simple.

And I'm not saying he's a Schumacher or Alonso either. He might have had a respectable end to the season last year, but as to greatness, that's yet to be proven. But neither is Hamilton, and he won a championship. If they'd gone to each other's teams, we'd be saying 'Lewis who'.

Give Piquet a legitimate chance and he should likely do well.

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Paul
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 19:33

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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We've never seen a great drive from him. One time when he was lucky and found himself in a leading position in Germany he surrendered without a fight. He made too many driving mistakes. When he wasn't in a car similar to Alonso's he was way-way behind, when he was- he was way behind.

If Piquet Sr. does buy a team for him, it will be really hard to find a team-mate who will make Piquet Jr. look good.

Timomies
Timomies
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Joined: 02 Jun 2009, 16:04
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Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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Man, sorry to say this, but his forum is full of total idiots :lol: heh

axle
axle
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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Timomies wrote:Man, sorry to say this, but his forum is full of total idiots :lol: heh
I just checked all 18 of your posts and found no earth shattering IQ evidence either. Glass houses, stones, etc...
- Axle

vall
vall
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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SZ wrote:What's more if you're right, why did FA need the vast majority of testing? He's got even more experience. Your logic is flawed.
I don't think FA needed more testing. Rather Renault wanted FA to test more to get more reliable feedback to develop the car. I even think that in an interview earlier this year Piquet said it.

Anyway, I agree with Paul that we have not seen a great drive from him. Even if you do not compare with FA, you see that Piguet performance was not impressive at all. He did make too many driver mistakes.

SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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vall wrote:I don't think FA needed more testing. Rather Renault wanted FA to test more to get more reliable feedback to develop the car. I even think that in an interview earlier this year Piquet said it.
So what you're effectively saying - which is correct - is that the car is developed around Fernando, Renault's two-time world champion. Fair enough - so why the need to give Nelson a lesser-spec car too? Points to a fairly insecure lead driver, who didn't take well to a rookie Nelson used to race toe to toe with getting the same equipment over at McLaren.
vall wrote:Anyway, I agree with Paul that we have not seen a great drive from him. Even if you do not compare with FA, you see that Piguet performance was not impressive at all. He did make too many driver mistakes.
He does make a fair few mistakes. So does that Hamilton kid over at McLaren, including some fairly bone-headed repeat rule infractions which, were he in a lesser car, among tougher opposition and further down the championship order, would have many people wondering why he wasn't being shown the door.

But great drives require a great car and/or familiarity with what you've got. Neither of which he's hardly ever had with Renault. Take Japan last year - Alonso won from 4th, Piquet finished 4th... from 12th, within around 20 seconds of his higher-rated team mate having hardly ever had clean air in front of him. Amusingly Renault had upgrades on both cars for Japan 08. Be fair. That's a great performance for someone under a lot of heat in their rookie year compared to a world champion. When he doesn't have the same gear, what do you expect him to do, build the aero updates with a bit of bog and spit between sessions himself? When the car's new, the rules change and he's on limited testing, it developed around someone else and on top of that he's getting the updates beyond when they're at their most competitive... what more can the guy do?

You need competitive machinery and you need support to go fast against other drivers that have just that.

Unless McLaren feels like taking in additional rookies into their team and continuing to give them equal treatment - something they may not want to repeat after their 07 experience - with limited testing, the current testing ban really, really limits things for drivers starting out in F1.

I'd happily see Friday testing return for the lesser experienced drivers only.

vall
vall
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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SZ wrote:
vall wrote:I don't think FA needed more testing. Rather Renault wanted FA to test more to get more reliable feedback to develop the car. I even think that in an interview earlier this year Piquet said it.
so why the need to give Nelson a lesser-spec car too? Points to a fairly insecure lead driver, who didn't take well to a rookie Nelson used to race toe to toe with getting the same equipment over at McLaren.
I think it is down to production capacity. With the rate of development this year, they could only produce one set of updates and it goes to the better driver first and next race to the other car too. Even McLaren did the same this year, didn't they? But that's not the point, for 1.5 years Pequet should have started to deliver. He didn't and he is axed.

Tho I fully agree that the tesitng ban makes things really tough for the new guys. FIA and FOTA should really think about it

Mitsuhirato
Mitsuhirato
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Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 23:31

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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I can't help but feel sorry for this guy too. I don't know if he "lacked the guts" and couldn't hold the pressure, but being nº2 to Alonso and not having the support of the team is certainly the main factor for his failure.

I was watching the race build up from BBC some races ago (can't remember which one) and it looked like, if asked the right question, he'd cry right on the spot.No wonder he makes mistakes, if goes to the race that depressed.

I sure hope this isn't the end of his F1 carreer, it would be a shame.

SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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vall wrote:
I think it is down to production capacity. With the rate of development this year, they could only produce one set of updates and it goes to the better driver first and next race to the other car too. Even McLaren did the same this year, didn't they? But that's not the point, for 1.5 years Pequet should have started to deliver. He didn't and he is axed.

Tho I fully agree that the tesitng ban makes things really tough for the new guys. FIA and FOTA should really think about it
Renault would have to have an exceptionally limited production capacity to always have one guy get the bum deal! I thought most F1 teams are setup to race two complete cars - all anyone has to do to beat Renault in the WCC then is to simply have the production capacity to properly maintain two cars!

(Bullsh*t.) There are exceptions, sure, but none nearly as prevalent as the fact that his team mate having protection from internal competition! Even a lack of new parts doesn't mean you don't get the same testing mileage.

Be fair, vall. The races he had a similar car, last year, he did OK.

You don't measure driver expectations against how long they've had a contract, you measure them against how long they've had in a competitive car. Piquet had far less than 1.5 years in a competitive car, or even testing in the hope of developing one! If Briatore doesn't do so, he's going to be chewing through a whole bunch of prospective good drivers in future...

Even Schumacher started out in a relatively quick Jordan - they didn't hamstring him with sh*t parts for his first race!

I'm not saying Piquet is the next Schumacher or that he couldn't do with sending the car off-track a bit less. But until he's had a fair go, we don't really know what he is. We know only that he was as good as Lewis prior to F1 and that he's had his career opportunities marginalised since getting a race seat.

Put yourself in his place - you've worked your ass off to have a stellar career as a young driver towards F1, you get there, and some of the best years of your working life are wasted having your opportunities cut from under you, whilst guys you've beaten are allowed to get on with the job. You'd be pretty shitty too. This isn't doing his career any good.

Bring on some Friday practice!

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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SZ wrote:He's got a point. The cars have developed a lot in in 2009 - updates at every race and no testing - your career is basically f*cked if you're not getting the latest updates.
So what's his excuse for constantly ending up in the gravel? Not having updates? What's his excuse for being such a bore to interview(Only spoken from what I've seen on SpeedTV)? Attitude has alot to do with how well you drive. If you go in in a bad mood you're going to make mistakes. It also has alot to do with your future, being known as a whiner is not going to get you either sympathy or consideration. No one likes being around a whiner.

Just because you didn't get what you wanted does not mean you can go around pointing fingers and being a whiny baby. Most here flamed Alonso for being a baby when he didn't get his way. Yes he was number 1 in both years he won his championships, but it's even worse when you're a 2 time WDC and you are bitching. So Piquet whined about not getting what he wanted, big damn deal. Get over it. That's life, if he held his head up and said 'You know what, my time at Renault wasn't my best but I'm damn lucky to be paid to drive a racecar" and go sell himself to other teams he might have a better chance at staying in F1. Hell it's already been mentioned about Bourdais being a whiner and nobody likes him. Instead he whines and points fingers, doing more damage to his future in F1 than probably being woefully slow in that Renault.

Mitsuhirato
Mitsuhirato
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Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 23:31

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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Ray wrote:
but I'm damn lucky to be paid to drive a racecar"
I hate when people use those kind of arguments... Lucky? From what I know being able to reach F1 is a lot of hard work and dedication. They need a lot of training and preparation not a four-leaf clover. Might as well say that surgeons should just operate and shut the hell up because they are lucky to be paid to practise surgery.

To me he hasn't done enough whining. Of course he felt unmotivated, I would too if I was given a car that was half a second off the pace of the sister car and yet still have to deliver results, when my two times champion teammate, who's the center of attentions, also has a hard time delivering results, with a better car.

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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Mitsuhirato wrote:
Ray wrote:
but I'm damn lucky to be paid to drive a racecar"
I hate when people use those kind of arguments... Lucky? From what I know being able to reach F1 is a lot of hard work and dedication. They need a lot of training and preparation not a four-leaf clover. Might as well say that surgeons should just operate and shut the hell up because they are lucky to be paid to practise surgery.

To me he hasn't done enough whining. Of course he felt unmotivated, I would too if I was given a car that was half a second off the pace of the sister car and yet still have to deliver results, when my two times champion teammate, who's the center of attentions, also has a hard time delivering results, with a better car.
Driving a racecar and performing a service like cutting grass or being a police officer or doing brain surgery are in no way comparable. So I will continue to use that reasoning.

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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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umotivated?he should hve had enough self motivation just to keep his ass in F1 machinery.

Plain and simple , regardless of what spec car he was driving relative to FA, NP Jr did not get the best out of what he had

that in itself is failure

but he did help gift FA a win, maybe that deserves a watch or something.

HE really isnt worth all this discussion.

Mitsuhirato
Mitsuhirato
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Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 23:31

Re: Piquet - GONE!!! (At Last???)

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ISLAMATRON wrote:
HE really isnt worth all this discussion.
And yet you felt compelled to give your two cents.

But I do agree that maybe he should have adopted a diferent attitude towards his situation, and he did make quite a few mistakes. Then again, he didn't even complete two full seasons.
Last edited by Mitsuhirato on 04 Aug 2009, 18:09, edited 1 time in total.