Christian Horner under Investigation

[101FlyingDutchman]

Whether the evidence is authentic or not, Red Bull have failed miserably to contain this debacle. Not surprising that Domenicali and Ben Sulayem are reportedly preparing to step in.

Yep, it's overshadowing everything else related to F1.

Ted Kravitz just reported that Ben Sulayem is meeting with Christian Horner. Horner is not on the pit wall. Everything is pointing to these screenshots being authentic. There would be no reason to meet if they weren’t. Red Bull would already have been able to make that determination and tell the FIA/F1, even if you think there might be a reason not to state so publicly.

Don't think you can link that with the meeting. Ben Sulayem might well impress on CH that the current state is damaging the F1 brand and it's unacceptable to let this continue to fester. Probably looking to lean on him and get more info. This needs to end with a way more definitive statement and depending on exactly what happened, it'll be make or break. Id lean towards the latter in this day and age. Money talks. Bringing any company into disrepute (whether 100% at fault or not) is quite often the final straw in FTSE companies

[stonehenge]

Yep, it's overshadowing everything else related to F1.

Ted Kravitz just reported that Ben Sulayem is meeting with Christian Horner. Horner is not on the pit wall. Everything is pointing to these screenshots being authentic. There would be no reason to meet if they weren’t. Red Bull would already have been able to make that determination and tell the FIA/F1, even if you think there might be a reason not to state so publicly.

Don't think you can link that with the meeting. Ben Sulayem might well impress on CH that the current state is damaging the F1 brand and it's unacceptable to let this continue to fester. Probably looking to lean on him and get more info. This needs to end with a way more definitive statement and depending on exactly what happened, it'll be make or break. Id lean towards the latter in this day and age. Money talks. Bringing any company into disrepute (whether 100% at fault or not) is quite often the final straw in FTSE companies

Exactly. Which is why if these leaks were fake, Red Bull wouldn’t have let things escalate to this point. I don’t see how what you’re saying is at odds with my point?

[GrizzleBoy]

I'd say the fact that the pnly thing theyve really had to say to the media so far regarding the leaks is a threat of, "don't post them or we'll sue you into the ground", shows that however the investigation concluded, there is still possibility that Horner was only cleared of legal wrongdoing. Doesn't mean that its impossible that it could have been concluded that anything that showed up in the investigation was not deeply immoral.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Ted Kravitz just reported that Ben Sulayem is meeting with Christian Horner. Horner is not on the pit wall. Everything is pointing to these screenshots being authentic. There would be no reason to meet if they weren’t. Red Bull would already have been able to make that determination and tell the FIA/F1, even if you think there might be a reason not to state so publicly.

Don't think you can link that with the meeting. Ben Sulayem might well impress on CH that the current state is damaging the F1 brand and it's unacceptable to let this continue to fester. Probably looking to lean on him and get more info. This needs to end with a way more definitive statement and depending on exactly what happened, it'll be make or break. Id lean towards the latter in this day and age. Money talks. Bringing any company into disrepute (whether 100% at fault or not) is quite often the final straw in FTSE companies

Exactly. Which is why if these leaks were fake, Red Bull wouldn’t have let things escalate to this point. I don’t see how what you’re saying is at odds with my point?

Because the “leaks or part of the leaks” may well be fake. Who are we to know? Ben S, doesn’t particularly care either I suspect. What he DOES care about is the reputational damage this does to F1 by this dominating headlines around the world. Whichever way this goes, it needs concluding. Fake/not fake/legally cleared but morally not etc etc. This could rumble on and I presume he’d not be best pleased if it does

[Redragon]

The meeting lasted 5 min.

https://ibb.co/z247PWg

https://ibb.co/qptbw97

[dialtone]

Don't think you can link that with the meeting. Ben Sulayem might well impress on CH that the current state is damaging the F1 brand and it's unacceptable to let this continue to fester. Probably looking to lean on him and get more info. This needs to end with a way more definitive statement and depending on exactly what happened, it'll be make or break. Id lean towards the latter in this day and age. Money talks. Bringing any company into disrepute (whether 100% at fault or not) is quite often the final straw in FTSE companies

Exactly. Which is why if these leaks were fake, Red Bull wouldn’t have let things escalate to this point. I don’t see how what you’re saying is at odds with my point?

Because the “leaks or part of the leaks” may well be fake. Who are we to know? Ben S, doesn’t particularly care either I suspect. What he DOES care about is the reputational damage this does to F1 by this dominating headlines around the world. Whichever way this goes, it needs concluding. Fake/not fake/legally cleared but morally not etc etc. This could rumble on and I presume he’d not be best pleased if it does

I agree, fake or no fake Benny isn’t going to mess around. He’s likely asking CH to take a walk, and most likely CH is telling him he won’t because he’s innocent and was cleared by RB.

Thorny issue for sure, no one comes out of this winning. And to be honest it better all be fake because this is truly unbelievable from a guy like CH.

[Watto]

Ted Kravitz just reported that Ben Sulayem is meeting with Christian Horner. Horner is not on the pit wall. Everything is pointing to these screenshots being authentic. There would be no reason to meet if they weren’t. Red Bull would already have been able to make that determination and tell the FIA/F1, even if you think there might be a reason not to state so publicly.

Don't think you can link that with the meeting. Ben Sulayem might well impress on CH that the current state is damaging the F1 brand and it's unacceptable to let this continue to fester. Probably looking to lean on him and get more info. This needs to end with a way more definitive statement and depending on exactly what happened, it'll be make or break. Id lean towards the latter in this day and age. Money talks. Bringing any company into disrepute (whether 100% at fault or not) is quite often the final straw in FTSE companies

Exactly. Which is why if these leaks were fake, Red Bull wouldn’t have let things escalate to this point. I don’t see how what you’re saying is at odds with my point?

Red Bull maybe hoping it blew over quickly or didn’t want to fuel the fire; I think too you’re talking with very emotive fans I’d argue most of which would believe what they wanted no matter what statement was released both for and against the general public aren’t always that smart, the FIA may just want more from RBR, I know I’ve seen simular investigations that were very public was equal emotive either way even reading transcripts people read into them what they wanted - wast until I read maybe some lawyers break down the statements things made a little more sense - and I think they were very different to the way fans saw things.

I'd say the fact that the pnly thing theyve really had to say to the media so far regarding the leaks is a threat of, "don't post them or we'll sue you into the ground", shows that however the investigation concluded, there is still possibility that Horner was only cleared of legal wrongdoing. Doesn't mean that its impossible that it could have been concluded that anything that showed up in the investigation was not deeply immoral.

I’ve said all along I don’t doubt there was something that warranted the investigation. But did question if there was an alterior motive- even if there is though does not make the complain less valid

[langedweil]

Imho the real underlying trouble overall isn't whether the data is real or false, it's the fact nothing really can't be done to establish the truth any longer. Whatever the outcome or cause, the polarization (of this case or the next) will remain as truth and falsification have become impossible to intersect. As one can see/read over the last 75 pages ...

Get used to it, because things will get way more crazy than today very quickly, cancel culture will always win or damage severly regardless what happens/happened. The term truth will cease to exist (or maybe already is) and society will weird-up massively (more than where we are today).

Anyway, buckle up ...

[Stylus_XL]

Exactly. Which is why if these leaks were fake, Red Bull wouldn’t have let things escalate to this point. I don’t see how what you’re saying is at odds with my point?

Because the “leaks or part of the leaks” may well be fake. Who are we to know? Ben S, doesn’t particularly care either I suspect. What he DOES care about is the reputational damage this does to F1 by this dominating headlines around the world. Whichever way this goes, it needs concluding. Fake/not fake/legally cleared but morally not etc etc. This could rumble on and I presume he’d not be best pleased if it does

I agree, fake or no fake Benny isn’t going to mess around. He’s likely asking CH to take a walk, and most likely CH is telling him he won’t because he’s innocent and was cleared by RB.

Thorny issue for sure, no one comes out of this winning. And to be honest it better all be fake because this is truly unbelievable from a guy like CH.

Yeah my feeling is that Ben Sulayem will tell Horner to stand down at the very least until this is fully resolved, because it clearly hasn't been.

[dialtone]

Imho the real underlying trouble overall isn't whether the data is real or false, it's the fact nothing really can't be done to establish the truth any longer. Whatever the outcome or cause, the polarization (of this case or the next) will remain as truth and falsification have become impossible to intersect. As one can see/read over the last 75 pages ...

Get used to it, because things will get way more crazy than today very quickly, cancel culture will always win or damage severly regardless what happens/happened. The term truth will cease to exist (or maybe already is) and society will weird-up massively (more than where we are today).

Anyway, buckle up ...

This has nothing to do with cancel culture. It’s not like CH made a bad comment or gave a bad interview or voted for the wrong person. Let’s not boil everything together.

Fans have exerted no pressure whatsoever on this. This is all happening within RB, RBR, Ford and F1/FOM world. This is purely business from that point of view.

[Luscion]

[langedweil]

Imho the real underlying trouble overall isn't whether the data is real or false, it's the fact nothing really can't be done to establish the truth any longer. Whatever the outcome or cause, the polarization (of this case or the next) will remain as truth and falsification have become impossible to intersect. As one can see/read over the last 75 pages ...

Get used to it, because things will get way more crazy than today very quickly, cancel culture will always win or damage severly regardless what happens/happened. The term truth will cease to exist (or maybe already is) and society will weird-up massively (more than where we are today).

Anyway, buckle up ...

This has nothing to do with cancel culture. It’s not like CH made a bad comment or gave a bad interview or voted for the wrong person. Let’s not boil everything together.

Fans have exerted no pressure whatsoever on this. This is all happening within RB, RBR, Ford and F1/FOM world. This is purely business from that point of view.

You miss the point .. but nevermind

[Watto]

Imho the real underlying trouble overall isn't whether the data is real or false, it's the fact nothing really can't be done to establish the truth any longer. Whatever the outcome or cause, the polarization (of this case or the next) will remain as truth and falsification have become impossible to intersect. As one can see/read over the last 75 pages ...

Get used to it, because things will get way more crazy than today very quickly, cancel culture will always win or damage severly regardless what happens/happened. The term truth will cease to exist (or maybe already is) and society will weird-up massively (more than where we are today).

Anyway, buckle up ...

I’m not sure there is anything much anyone could say that probably wouldn’t change some people’s opinions was an investigation back almost 10 years ago that was very public- had a more public resolution than this, court, arbitration has died down but you can still get some strongly opposing views on what happened from opposing fans now the investigation wasn’t fair they were rail road Ed from some to it being a coverup from others

[dialtone]

Imho the real underlying trouble overall isn't whether the data is real or false, it's the fact nothing really can't be done to establish the truth any longer. Whatever the outcome or cause, the polarization (of this case or the next) will remain as truth and falsification have become impossible to intersect. As one can see/read over the last 75 pages ...

Get used to it, because things will get way more crazy than today very quickly, cancel culture will always win or damage severly regardless what happens/happened. The term truth will cease to exist (or maybe already is) and society will weird-up massively (more than where we are today).

Anyway, buckle up ...

This has nothing to do with cancel culture. It’s not like CH made a bad comment or gave a bad interview or voted for the wrong person. Let’s not boil everything together.

Fans have exerted no pressure whatsoever on this. This is all happening within RB, RBR, Ford and F1/FOM world. This is purely business from that point of view.

You miss the point .. but nevermind

I understand your point but it doesn’t apply here. It wasn’t any different 10 years ago. This news would still go to press, get published, people would need to wait for judgement but in the meanwhile speculate and people would step down to avoid having it talked about too much.

If anything what has changed is that now people accused don’t step down automatically as it used to happen.

[Watto]

Imho the real underlying trouble overall isn't whether the data is real or false, it's the fact nothing really can't be done to establish the truth any longer. Whatever the outcome or cause, the polarization (of this case or the next) will remain as truth and falsification have become impossible to intersect. As one can see/read over the last 75 pages ...

Get used to it, because things will get way more crazy than today very quickly, cancel culture will always win or damage severly regardless what happens/happened. The term truth will cease to exist (or maybe already is) and society will weird-up massively (more than where we are today).

Anyway, buckle up ...

This has nothing to do with cancel culture. It’s not like CH made a bad comment or gave a bad interview or voted for the wrong person. Let’s not boil everything together.

Fans have exerted no pressure whatsoever on this. This is all happening within RB, RBR, Ford and F1/FOM world. This is purely business from that point of view.

Probably talking about the so called court of public opinion where you get very polarised views on some things that may force people hands, fair or not because of a bad image Twitter/forums can sometimes have a life of their own