Christian Horner under Investigation

[PapayaFan481]

Front page of The Sun today....

If nothing else, Netflix will be salivating over this!!

[djos]

There are plenty of signs that the messages are fake.

While Horner has not claimed that the images ­containing hundreds of messages and other content are fake, sources have pointed to issues with some of the correspondence. Certain WhatsApp messages begin with a lower case letter, when WhatsApp posts automatically start with a capital. The Times has seen past WhatsApp messages from Horner and they too start with a capital letter.

https://apple.news/Ad28Hnm0uStqRWru_RXqxPA

[Luscion]

Jos Verstappen had strong words about Horner

“There is tension here while he remains in position.The team is in danger of being torn apart. It can't go on the way it is. It will explode. He is playing the victim, when he is the one causing the problems.”

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-v ... /10582532/

[ScottB]

There are plenty of signs that the messages are fake.

While Horner has not claimed that the images ­containing hundreds of messages and other content are fake, sources have pointed to issues with some of the correspondence. Certain WhatsApp messages begin with a lower case letter, when WhatsApp posts automatically start with a capital. The Times has seen past WhatsApp messages from Horner and they too start with a capital letter.

https://apple.news/Ad28Hnm0uStqRWru_RXqxPA

Not always, as your phone can learn from your own typing and overrule it, for example, for some reason if I send ‘lol’ as a single message, my phone autocorrects ‘Lol’ to ‘lol’

Or you can just hit ‘shift’ before typing, or be using WhatsApp from a computer client rather than a phone.

I’d be looking for something stronger than that to show they are fake to be honest!

[djos]

The messages are clearly taken from a phone. On iPhones and most Android phones, all sentences are automatically given a capitalised first letter on the first word. Even when typing in a web browser from your phone like I am now, this is automatic.

[dialtone]

The messages are clearly taken from a phone. On iPhones and most Android phones, all sentences are automatically given a capitalised first letter on the first word. Even when typing in a web browser from your phone like I am now, this is automatic.

Yes, he wrote that it's about using the autocomplete. But the screenshot might be taken from a phone doesn't mean the message came from a phone. You can use the desktop client and take screenshots on the phone. And if you really wanted to write lower case you could so really... This is all weak stuff to dismiss the images.

[djos]

The messages are clearly taken from a phone. On iPhones and most Android phones, all sentences are automatically given a capitalised first letter on the first word. Even when typing in a web browser from your phone like I am now, this is automatic.

Yes, he wrote that it's about using the autocomplete. But the screenshot might be taken from a phone doesn't mean the message came from a phone. You can use the desktop client and take screenshots on the phone. And if you really wanted to write lower case you could so really... This is all weak stuff to dismiss the images.

Does anyone really change this default behaviour?

Btw, iirc the desktop client has the same behaviour as the phone app.

[f1jcw]

You are assuming this is real, it has yet to be proven, until then he deserves to be assumed innocent.

That is a weak excuse, you know it is. Horner and Redbull have bot once said they are fake, if you need to try and project they are fake to continue you defence of abuse of an enployeee, shame on you.

I’m in IT, I know how easy it is to fake this sort this thing, so yeah I’m not jumping to conclusions until it’s been fully and forensically investigated.

Snap, I’m a web developer/builder and coder and it is nothing about if or not possible but the reaction to it.
You know this as much as I do, not once has the media or Redbull or Horner come out and said they are fake.
You know they are not.

[west52keep64]

I’m in IT, I know how easy it is to fake this sort this thing, so yeah I’m not jumping to conclusions until it’s been fully and forensically investigated.

What part of it are you saying is fake?

[djos]

I’m in IT, I know how easy it is to fake this sort this thing, so yeah I’m not jumping to conclusions until it’s been fully and forensically investigated.

What part of it are you saying is fake?

I’m not saying it’s 100% fake, I’m saying it’s not proven either and there are some elements that are inconsistent and cause doubt.

[stonehenge]

Jos Verstappen says that Red Bull is in danger of being torn apart if Horner stays, but somehow random users on the internet know for a *fact* that these messages are fake...

Please explain to me: if these messages are total fakes, what explains everything that has happened since then? Why did Horner put out a statement, but didn't deny the messages are authentic? Why has Red Bull said nothing? Why has no one told the media (even anonymously) that the messages aren't real? Why did Horner refuse to comment on whether the messages are real when he was asked about it before the race? Why did Jos Verstappen make a public statement criticizing Horner and calling his position untenable?

Horner's coming under A LOT of fire for this. He might not be the team principal by the next race. Why would he not simply state that these are fake if they really are?

[Luscion]

I don’t know what is worse for me

Horner abuse his PA

Or f1 defending sexual abuse of a employee

It is disgusting that that this is what F1 has come to to. That people defend the abuse of a female employee.
I’m out of there, you disgust me.

You are assuming this is real, it has yet to be proven, until then he deserves to be assumed innocent.

I think what Jos verstappen said might add a bit more weight to it - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-v ... /10582532/

“There is tension here while he remains in position.

“The team is in danger of being torn apart. It can't go on the way it is. It will explode. He is playing the victim, when he is the one causing the problems.”

[djos]

So here’s my thoughts on why I have doubts about the “truth” of this evidence.

If it was legit, it would have been presented as part of the accusation, and Horner would have been found guilty and fired.

The pictures and screen shots have been stripped of their EXIF data. Google Drive does not do this IME, you need to intentionally do this.

I tested taking screen shots on my iPhone and on my Mac. iOS, windows and macOS all had a little bit of EXIF data, not none at all.

But this is all speculation based on observations, going back to my original point. If this info was real and it was provided as part of the complaint, Horner should have been found guilty and fired.

This investigation was done by a high priced lawyer, so I find it hard to believe he would risk damage to his own reputation and career by ignoring legitimate evidence. This leads me to believe the contents of the Google Drive are not legitimate evidence.

Honestly, if Horner is guilty, then he deserve to be fired and face legal sanctions. If not, the person or persons behind this should be charged with fraud.

Anyway, that’s my 2.5c.

[Paa]

I think what Jos verstappen said might add a bit more weight to it - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-v ... /10582532/

“There is tension here while he remains in position.

“The team is in danger of being torn apart. It can't go on the way it is. It will explode. He is playing the victim, when he is the one causing the problems.”

This is such a strange thing to say at this time. These are the possibilities.
1. Jos wants Horner gone --> he would say this, regardless if true (stirring the pot)

2. Jos wants Horner to stay --> he would not say this, regardless if true (show unity, like Geri)

3. Jos neutral --> he would most probably try to stay away and would just say something meaningless like Marko, Max etc

So all in all, I think this quote from Jos says more about his stance, rather than the actual atmosphere within RB.

[stonehenge]

I think what Jos verstappen said might add a bit more weight to it - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-v ... /10582532/

“There is tension here while he remains in position.

“The team is in danger of being torn apart. It can't go on the way it is. It will explode. He is playing the victim, when he is the one causing the problems.”

This is such a strange thing to say at this time. These are the possibilities.
1. Jos wants Horner gone --> he would say this, regardless if true (stirring the pot)

2. Jos wants Horner to stay --> he would not say this, regardless if true (show unity, like Geri)

3. Jos neutral --> he would most probably try to stay away and would just say something meaningless like Marko, Max etc

So all in all, I think this quote from Jos says more about his stance, rather than the actual atmosphere within RB.

Yes, that's a very sharp analysis. However, I think the point isn't whether Jos knows something about the messages being real, it's that his comments make it seem really weird that neither Horner or Red Bull has denied them. If Jos wants Horner gone and is using this situation to stir the pot as you put it, why wouldn't Horner (or Red Bull) categorically deny the veracity of these messages to put an end to this situation? It just seems nonsensical to me.