The lawyer could have said in his report, that it was grounds for dismissal, or very borderline etc etc. However that doesn't mean the executive board listened.
How do you know it wasn't presented as part of the accusation? In fact, German media reported that screenshots of text messages *were* submitted as evidence.
I think we've been over this enough: both legitimate leakers and fakers would have reason to remove EXIF data. It does not prove or disprove the authenticity of these screenshots.djos wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 04:03The pictures and screen shots have been stripped of their EXIF data. Google Drive does not do this IME, you need to intentionally do this.
I tested taking screen shots on my iPhone and on my Mac. iOS, windows and macOS all had a little bit of EXIF data, not none at all.
*Should* is a very different thing than *would*. Yes, it's very possible that Horner *should* have been fired. Why do you think lots of people in F1 are extremely unhappy about the lack of transparency about the investigation and are demanding more info, both in the media and behind the scenes? Red Bull is owned by a Thai businessman who very likely helped his son escape from the authorities after killing a cop. And by all accounts, he very much backs Horner. He was even at the race today, unlike the other shareholders including Oliver Mintzlaff. Now, I'm not suggesting that I think it's likely that the Thai owner called Red Bull and instructed them to end the investigation, but given that Red Bull merely stated that the complaint was dismissed and offered no other explanation, we simply don't know! I don't think saying that he would have been fired if these messages were real, but he wasn't fired, therefore the messages can't be real, is a very good argument. I can think of a bunch of explanations why Red Bull dismissed the complaint despite there being grounds for firing Horner.
The lawyer was in charge of investigating and submitting a report. He would not have been in charge of making a decision based on that report.
I'm not an expert in UK or Austrian law, but it is generally very hard to bring charges against someone if the conduct can be proven to be mutual. If Horner consistently made sexually charged statements toward her that created a difficult work environment there might be criminal liability, but if it is more akin to a workplace affair that both parties had a part in instigating then it is highly unlikely. I'm not saying it's not wrong behavior for someone in a position of power to pursue a suborninate employee who's ability to freely consent is likely incapacitated, whether explicitly or implicitly, this is an area of the law that 1. hasn't caught up to today's views of what is acceptable and 2. is inherently problematic in that is almost always produces a "he said she said" situation.
This is what I am saying. Regardless of whether it turns out to be true or not, the fact that some people are willing to defend Horner by downplaying what he's accused of is absurd.f1jcw wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 02:59I don’t know what is worse for me
That Horner abuse his PA
Or f1 fans are defending sexual abuse of a employee and using the flimsiest reason to excuse it.
It is disgusting that that this is what F1 sport and its supporters have come to. Evidence of the exploitation of a female employee is posted and nothing from the stakeholders is posted to deny it.
it disgusts me, that people try to defend thus behaviour. What happens if it continues to be not denied, will excuse switch, or be stick to that it’s not to bad.
We are talking about a boss of a f1 team requesting intimate pictures of an employee.
Is there anyway that this is acceptable? Would you be happy with your wife or daughter being put in this position. At what point does it Become unacceptable.
F1 needs to sort its house out very quickly.
I didn’t see anyone downplaying it, only questioning if it’s genuine.PapayaFan481 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 06:51This is what I am saying. Regardless of whether it turns out to be true or not, the fact that some people are willing to defend Horner by downplaying what he's accused of is absurd.f1jcw wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 02:59I don’t know what is worse for me
That Horner abuse his PA
Or f1 fans are defending sexual abuse of a employee and using the flimsiest reason to excuse it.
It is disgusting that that this is what F1 sport and its supporters have come to. Evidence of the exploitation of a female employee is posted and nothing from the stakeholders is posted to deny it.
it disgusts me, that people try to defend thus behaviour. What happens if it continues to be not denied, will excuse switch, or be stick to that it’s not to bad.
We are talking about a boss of a f1 team requesting intimate pictures of an employee.
Is there anyway that this is acceptable? Would you be happy with your wife or daughter being put in this position. At what point does it Become unacceptable.
F1 needs to sort its house out very quickly.
This honestly makes me more uncomfortable about the whole thing I think Horner should do but the long rumored tension between Jos and Horner I really don’t like a drivers father having this kind of influence over a team - last not when he doesn’t have a financial stake like the strolls. I haven’t always liked how Horner operates but I think it wa better than giving Jos and supposedly Marko more control. Part of me wonders a little if there is an element of Horner somewhat supporting Perez behind the scenes .Mogster wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 09:15Jos now telling Horner to go.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-v ... /10582532/
While Max and his father are close, i don't think it's a good idea to punish Max based on Jos statements. They're still individuals.
Yep can’t punish Max for Jos comments.TFSA wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 09:36While Max and his father are close, i don't think it's a good idea to punish Max based on Jos statements. They're still individuals.
I think most people in the Reddit thread about Jos comment said it best: F1, Red Bull (and possibly Max as well) would be better off if Jos would just eff off. With his past, he hardly has the moral high ground.
Maybe this is all Jos trying to oust Horner and take over the team. He ís Jos the Boss after all...TFSA wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 09:36While Max and his father are close, i don't think it's a good idea to punish Max based on Jos statements. They're still individuals.
I think most people in the Reddit thread about Jos comment said it best: F1, Red Bull (and possibly Max as well) would be better off if Jos would just eff off. With his past, he hardly has the moral high ground.
I doubt RB would allow that but maybe Jos could have someone he has influence over instead.DChemTech wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 09:51Maybe this is all Jos trying to oust Horner and take over the team. He ís Jos the Boss after all...TFSA wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 09:36While Max and his father are close, i don't think it's a good idea to punish Max based on Jos statements. They're still individuals.
I think most people in the Reddit thread about Jos comment said it best: F1, Red Bull (and possibly Max as well) would be better off if Jos would just eff off. With his past, he hardly has the moral high ground.
