Christian Horner under Investigation

[214270]

Whatever route taken - leave of absence/ suspension etc; Horner needs to remove himself from the F1 eye & tackle the scandal head on. Yesterday’s photo op hand-in-hand with the wife, with Bin Sulayem & the Thais was poorly considered - no one is better for it.

His presence is a distraction; he absolutely doesn’t need to be front & centre which is the most frustrating part. That this is one of the most popular threads on here is telling, I’m quite tired of this nonsense personally but have no way to distance myself, it’s ever present.

[mendis]

This is the defence now

“The screen shots are not real”
Even though neither red bull or Horner are prepared to say they are not.
This is the last grasp, after times in the past they was refused to even exist, that it was a snowflake employee.
Do you even believe what you are pushing

I do. I am not the one pushing a case with unsubstantiated material. If those are real, why isn't anyone lodging a criminal case against Horner? Let me guess. They are not.

The defence is "these are not real” what is the defence when that isn’t applicable?
Neither Redbull or Horner has denied then, only his fans. Do you 100% think these are fake or you going this route as it is the only avenue available that gives you a morally acceptable route to defend the situation.

A ceo requesting nude pics are not necessarily criminal.

Just because Horner hasn't refuted, doesn't make it genuine. Try that argument in a court of law.

[Aesop]

Apparently Horner has been accusing Jos of trying to oust him for some time now. Probably also of leaking to the Telegraaf. According to the Mail they had an argument after qualifying about it.
Either Horner is paranoia and playing the victim. Jos is quoted today saying so.
Or Jos is actively involved. Fact is Jos was included in the WhatsApp images mailing (and no other Redbull affiliates) . At least someone thinks he is at their side.

Should Horner be fired? I can’t tell since I don’t what the exact allegations are, if the leaks are real, what the reasons for Redbull have been to close the case.
I am surprised so many think they know enough to judge.

[Watto]

Apparently Horner has been accusing Jos of trying to oust him for some time now. Probably also of leaking to the Telegraaf. According to the Mail they had an argument after qualifying about it.
Either Horner is paranoia and playing the victim. Jos is quoted today saying so.
Or Jos is actively involved. Fact is Jos was included in the WhatsApp images mailing (and no other Redbull affiliates) . At least someone thinks he is at their side.

Should Horner be fired? I can’t tell since I don’t what the exact allegations are, if the leaks are real, what the reasons for Redbull have been to close the case.
I am surprised so many think they know enough to judge.

I think that Jos is publicly commenting adding more fuel to the fire is telling enough he isn’t likely in the same side only adds another dynamic for the media to attack

[hollus]

And if you really wanted to write lower case you could so really... This is all weak stuff to dismiss the images.

Does anyone really change this default behaviour?

Yes, I do.

Meaning that in my phone I am used to clicking caps, then writing, old style. And thus, in my work phone, or in other people's phones, where the default is on, I often still click CAPS, as a result start a sentence with lower case, and often go "sod it" and continue.
I might be an exception here, though, but Capitalization is a hint, not a proof.

[hollus]

Some posts, either spammy or disrespectful have started to be deleted. The worst offenders have started to get warnings.

A lot of posts have been deleted, actually, from the last few pages. If your post is missing, either it fell on the categories above, or, and this is many posts, it just replied (and likely quoted) to the posts that were initially removed, in which case the fault was with the post replied to, not necessarily with your post.
Just for feedback if you see your post missing.

Please, remain respectful of others and do not spam the same thing again and again. It makes the forum unreadable otherwise.

[AMG.Tzan]

What in the world is daddy Verstapen doing??

Your boy is winning everything in the team Horner made all by himself since 2005!

Not to mention, Verstapen would be a 2-time champion if Horner wasn’t lobbying the FIA all year long in 2021 and AD21…

Can’t understand this guy! He’s always causing problems! He’s going to derail Max’s career if he doesn’t stop…

He even went to Toto for just “a casual talk”??

(It would be lovely for F1 if Verstapen left Red Bull though)

[Watto]

What in the world is daddy Verstapen doing??

Your boy is winning everything in the team Horner made all by himself since 2005!

Not to mention, Verstapen would be a 2-time champion if Horner wasn’t lobbying the FIA all year long in 2021 and AD21…

Can’t understand this guy! He’s always causing problems! He’s going to derail Max’s career if he doesn’t stop…

He even went to Toto for just “a casual talk”??

(It would be lovely for F1 if Verstapen left Red Bull though)

I think that’s just Jos. And it worries me he’s trying to influence the team even more. But all accts I think Horner should do. But Jo’s making a very public comment is only going to make it worse. Actually adds why why I have respect for Lewis dad you see him around a fair bit but knows he’s not the focus - actually iirc he was one of the first to congratulate Max in 2021 despite I am sure some feelings he had

[organic]

Max to Merc for 2025?

Toto: anything is possible

[Watto]

Max to Merc?

Jos: anything is possible

thing is I doubt Mercedes would give Max the same support RBR have where they have a fairly defined 1 and 2 driver

[f1isgood]

In my opinion, the Jos comments make things far more clear. I think it's a clear power struggle within RB. I am inclined to believe that he is on the side that leaked the information (he was copied in the email afterall according to reports). And Erik Van Haren (who is quite reliable for RB related news) was the one who broke the fact that there's an investigation, and also about inappropriate messages. Somehow Jos has links to the complainant although I am unsure why or how, and much of the news has come from the Dutch media.

Jos for some unknown reason seems to want Horner out -- otherwise there's no reason to make comments of the type he did yesterday to the media. The reasons could go all the way back to DM's death, and the failed Porsche deal.

The timing is also very interesting in this entire saga -- whoever wants Horner out first waits to see if the investigation gets him sacked, that didn't, so then leak some confidential information (assuming it's true) -- Horner still decides to stay and not resign, and finally go out and say it is causing tension in the team. But there was no news during the race events from Quali to Race, and once RB comfortably win, the tension story pops up.

Of course the role of the driver Max Verstappen in all this remains to be seen. There were rumors where apparently Max sided with Marko over Horner for some reason. So I am inclined to believe Max is also on the side of wanting Horner out.

Proper drama this.

[Watto]

In my opinion, the Jos comments make things far more clear. I think it's a clear power struggle within RB. I am inclined to believe that he is on the side that leaked the information (he was copied in the email afterall according to reports). And Erik Van Haren (who is quite reliable for RB related news) was the one who broke the fact that there's an investigation, and also about inappropriate messages. Somehow Jos has links to the complainant although I am unsure why or how, and much of the news has come from the Dutch media.

Jos for some unknown reason seems to want Horner out -- otherwise there's no reason to make comments of the type he did yesterday to the media. The reasons could go all the way back to DM's death, and the failed Porsche deal.

The timing is also very interesting in this entire saga -- whoever wants Horner out first waits to see if the investigation gets him sacked, that didn't, so then leak some confidential information (assuming it's true) -- Horner still decides to stay and not resign, and finally go out and say it is causing tension in the team. But there was no news during the race events from Quali to Race, and once RB comfortably win, the tension story pops up.

Of course the role of the driver Max Verstappen in all this remains to be seen. There were rumors where apparently Max sided with Marko over Horner for some reason. So I am inclined to believe Max is also on the side of wanting Horner out.

Proper drama this.

Yep agree here.

Jos comments only make it pretty clear there is some kinda power struggle and his comments show which sides he’s he wouldn’t comment otherwise.

The rumours of a power struggle are why I had some doubts on the leaked messages. Perhaps a full set of messages doesn’t makes Horner’s conversation as bad as the leaks suggest trying to paint a one sided picture

[chrisc90]

Horner/RB wont have one bit of bother in stopping Jos from being in the garage. They stopped him in 2018 and also warned him about his presence in 2022 and 2023.

https://www.google.com/search?q=jos+ban ... UTF-8#ip=1

Jos' comments don't make much sense, he goes on about RB exploding (or rather imploding) because of the ongoing situation, yet he's there at the front selling stories for a few quid fuelling the fire. I mean where's the logic in that.

Ive literally no idea what Jos is thinking of, considering Horner (and RB) made his son a 3 times world champion.

[f1isgood]

In my opinion, the Jos comments make things far more clear. I think it's a clear power struggle within RB. I am inclined to believe that he is on the side that leaked the information (he was copied in the email afterall according to reports). And Erik Van Haren (who is quite reliable for RB related news) was the one who broke the fact that there's an investigation, and also about inappropriate messages. Somehow Jos has links to the complainant although I am unsure why or how, and much of the news has come from the Dutch media.

Jos for some unknown reason seems to want Horner out -- otherwise there's no reason to make comments of the type he did yesterday to the media. The reasons could go all the way back to DM's death, and the failed Porsche deal.

The timing is also very interesting in this entire saga -- whoever wants Horner out first waits to see if the investigation gets him sacked, that didn't, so then leak some confidential information (assuming it's true) -- Horner still decides to stay and not resign, and finally go out and say it is causing tension in the team. But there was no news during the race events from Quali to Race, and once RB comfortably win, the tension story pops up.

Of course the role of the driver Max Verstappen in all this remains to be seen. There were rumors where apparently Max sided with Marko over Horner for some reason. So I am inclined to believe Max is also on the side of wanting Horner out.

Proper drama this.

Yep agree here.

Jos comments only make it pretty clear there is some kinda power struggle and his comments show which sides he’s he wouldn’t comment otherwise.

The rumours of a power struggle are why I had some doubts on the leaked messages. Perhaps a full set of messages doesn’t makes Horner’s conversation as bad as the leaks suggest trying to paint a one sided picture

The information that we are being fed is likely only a part of the picture, and from someone who likely wants Christian gone. Moreover in my opinion the current leaked messages already have solid indication of this being an office affair that went south over many years. The barrister is likely to have seen what was made available in public domain and more to have come to the conclusion they came to. People want him gone, Horner made sure they had dirt on him, now they're just airing the dirty laundry to the world to make him resign.

[TFSA]

thing is I doubt Mercedes would give Max the same support RBR have where they have a fairly defined 1 and 2 driver

They really don't. If they did, Red Bull would have moved Perez out of the way in Jeddah and Baku last year, and Red Bull wouldn't have asked Max to give the position back in Brazil 22 (where Max refused).

They might listen more to Max, and ask Perez to keep it clean when Max comes charging from behind with clearly superior pace (which he usually does when he's out of position, because he's clearly the faster driver of the two), but that doesn't qualify as "fairly defined" in my book. The occasional driver swap they do is common amongst teams when one driver is faster (again, usually Max) and wants to have a go at a car in front.

Red Bull also realizes that Max isn't gonna stay with them forever. He's unlikely to stay in F1 as long as Hamilton and Alonso, because it's clear he wants to do other things. By all accounts, Verstappen is already past the halfway point in his career at Red Bull, and they will need to replace him sooner or later.

Same reason Mercedes stopped catering to Hamiltons every whim after 2021. They knew that as soon as they weren't a frontrunner anymore, Hamilton would likely leave them sooner or later (either by quitting F1, or jumping teams). Even enjoying succes in the present, teams need to look to the future.