Christian Horner under Investigation

[Ground Effect]

IF the woman/victim at the center of all this comes forward to them i'd imagine they may have grounds but without that agree see no way it get that far. I'd perhaps question too even if RB gave them the report without her willing to be interviewed to verify without the original transcripts far even that takes them

I would love to see if the woman can come forward and confirm the unsubstantiated information on the internet is true. That's the only way to know the full details of the chats, instead of selective cut and paste someone has done (assuming if those screenshots are even real). It would then become clear, if the full texts justify Red Bull GmbH and independent barrister dismissing the case.

Imagine if she says they aren't real.

I am opening to them being fake but have the feeling they are real - I do wonder though if we've been shown a very very selective side to them though maybe not that that doesn't mean he isn't at fault (if they are real) but would perhaps show a bigger picture

Even the man who's denying the allegations hasn't come out to say they're fake. That's one thing he should do if they are. But he seems comfortable with the Internet speculation. That would be close to psychotic behaviour, if indeed they're fake.

[Watto]

I would love to see if the woman can come forward and confirm the unsubstantiated information on the internet is true. That's the only way to know the full details of the chats, instead of selective cut and paste someone has done (assuming if those screenshots are even real). It would then become clear, if the full texts justify Red Bull GmbH and independent barrister dismissing the case.

Imagine if she says they aren't real.

I am opening to them being fake but have the feeling they are real - I do wonder though if we've been shown a very very selective side to them though maybe not that that doesn't mean he isn't at fault (if they are real) but would perhaps show a bigger picture

Even the man who's denying the allegations hasn't come out to say they're fake. That's one thing he should do if they are. But he seems comfortable with the Internet speculation. That would be close to psychotic behaviour, if indeed they're fake.

In part his response is why I think they are real. But depending on what lawyers and the ther articles on the power struggle within RB probably has to be very careful with what he says, I've seen other cases PR side may get out of hand but lawyers can advise them to say nothing not to say what they really want

[101FlyingDutchman]

I would love to see if the woman can come forward and confirm the unsubstantiated information on the internet is true. That's the only way to know the full details of the chats, instead of selective cut and paste someone has done (assuming if those screenshots are even real). It would then become clear, if the full texts justify Red Bull GmbH and independent barrister dismissing the case.

Imagine if she says they aren't real.

I am opening to them being fake but have the feeling they are real - I do wonder though if we've been shown a very very selective side to them though maybe not that that doesn't mean he isn't at fault (if they are real) but would perhaps show a bigger picture

Even the man who's denying the allegations hasn't come out to say they're fake. That's one thing he should do if they are. But he seems comfortable with the Internet speculation. That would be close to psychotic behaviour, if indeed they're fake.

In part I think that’s why some/all of it could be fake. How CAN you be this comfortable and fight the allegations right from the get go + have your wife openly support you in this manner when it’s out in the open. Granted not the first time someone has done that but he seems very assured to face the music.
The whole saga is just bizarre and I suspect the last word hasn’t been spoken! Btw, another leak was “threatened” but it seemed to have never occurred otherwise the press would have been all over it like a rash!

[mendis]

I would love to see if the woman can come forward and confirm the unsubstantiated information on the internet is true. That's the only way to know the full details of the chats, instead of selective cut and paste someone has done (assuming if those screenshots are even real). It would then become clear, if the full texts justify Red Bull GmbH and independent barrister dismissing the case.

Imagine if she says they aren't real.

I am opening to them being fake but have the feeling they are real - I do wonder though if we've been shown a very very selective side to them though maybe not that that doesn't mean he isn't at fault (if they are real) but would perhaps show a bigger picture

Even the man who's denying the allegations hasn't come out to say they're fake. That's one thing he should do if they are. But he seems comfortable with the Internet speculation. That would be close to psychotic behaviour, if indeed they're fake.

I find it really weird. If Horner is NOT coming out and denying it, it must be true. If so, then if the woman is NOT coming out and confirming it, it must be false. Why is it not that the case?

[SoulPancake13]

IF the woman/victim at the center of all this comes forward to them i'd imagine they may have grounds but without that agree see no way it get that far. I'd perhaps question too even if RB gave them the report without her willing to be interviewed to verify without the original transcripts far even that takes them

The problem is that still won't suffice, because to bring the sport into disrepute, you have to have done something publicly. This is still a private matter, which got leaked. Neither Red Bull nor Horner is responsible for someone leaking it, unless the leak came from Red Bull itself.

For example, if it turns out Mintzlaff leaked it (as some suggests), then that could absolutely be used as an argument against Red Bull. But i doubt any action could be brought against Horner from the FIA. Horner is not responsible for his private matters leaking. By all accounts, this is still an internal Red Bull issue. The FIA is simply playing firefighters here, trying to put a damper on it.

F1 is the place for excitement, lavishness, risk, entertainment, and extravagance, not a place for moral high ground and family entertainment. So F1 communities should stop judging others' private lives.

FIA should go after the people who leak private conversations to discourage others from using character assassination as a tool to bring down rival teams.

Hypothetically, suppose if Christian Horner decided to step down, I would think that many team owners will be keen to engage him to turn their team to become RB.

Perhaps Jos is instigating this to get CH across to Ferrari so that Max can join him?

No, the division between Jos and Horner has been there for a while. If Max comes to Ferrari, it won't be because Horner moves there too.

If Jos is Erik van Haren's source in this whole thing, one must question how Jos got access to this private information for van Haren to have claimed to have seen the messages. Unlike some here, I still believe van Haren due to his previous credibility(and the fact that the whole situation is not over with as he said), so I'm curious as to how this unfolded.

[Ground Effect]

I am opening to them being fake but have the feeling they are real - I do wonder though if we've been shown a very very selective side to them though maybe not that that doesn't mean he isn't at fault (if they are real) but would perhaps show a bigger picture

Even the man who's denying the allegations hasn't come out to say they're fake. That's one thing he should do if they are. But he seems comfortable with the Internet speculation. That would be close to psychotic behaviour, if indeed they're fake.

I find it really weird. If Horner is NOT coming out and denying it, it must be true. If so, then if the woman is NOT coming out and confirming it, it must be false. Why is it not that the case?

This is the most direct he's been asked and he seems to be avoiding an answer, why though? If you're trying to clear your name, protect your wife, family, etc isn't it worth confirming their false? Where's the threat of legal action against any outlet publishing these screenshot? To the best of my knowledge, the lady hasn't being asked directly if they're real, but he has, but no firm statement from him. It doesn't look good.

[Ground Effect]

I am opening to them being fake but have the feeling they are real - I do wonder though if we've been shown a very very selective side to them though maybe not that that doesn't mean he isn't at fault (if they are real) but would perhaps show a bigger picture

Even the man who's denying the allegations hasn't come out to say they're fake. That's one thing he should do if they are. But he seems comfortable with the Internet speculation. That would be close to psychotic behaviour, if indeed they're fake.

In part I think that’s why some/all of it could be fake. How CAN you be this comfortable and fight the allegations right from the get go + have your wife openly support you in this manner when it’s out in the open. Granted not the first time someone has done that but he seems very assured to face the music.
The whole saga is just bizarre and I suspect the last word hasn’t been spoken! Btw, another leak was “threatened” but it seemed to have never occurred otherwise the press would have been all over it like a rash!

That's what I thought a when this whole thing started, but like you said, it wouldn't be the first time. Also IF these allegations are true, it could simply be a case of Horner firmly believing his actions weren't wrong. He's been accused of controlling behaviour, but he could feel his behaviour wasn't controlling, even if all the stuff transpired.

[mendis]

Even the man who's denying the allegations hasn't come out to say they're fake. That's one thing he should do if they are. But he seems comfortable with the Internet speculation. That would be close to psychotic behaviour, if indeed they're fake.

I find it really weird. If Horner is NOT coming out and denying it, it must be true. If so, then if the woman is NOT coming out and confirming it, it must be false. Why is it not that the case?

This is the most direct he's been asked and he seems to be avoiding an answer, why though? If you're trying to clear your name, protect your wife, family, etc isn't it worth confirming their false? Where's the threat of legal action against any outlet publishing these screenshot? To the best of my knowledge, the lady hasn't being asked directly if they're real, but he has, but no firm statement from him. It doesn't look good.

Heard of NDA (non disclosure agreement) and more specifically after an investigation was done?

[Joe Hudson]

I find it really weird. If Horner is NOT coming out and denying it, it must be true. If so, then if the woman is NOT coming out and confirming it, it must be false. Why is it not that the case?

This is the most direct he's been asked and he seems to be avoiding an answer, why though? If you're trying to clear your name, protect your wife, family, etc isn't it worth confirming their false? Where's the threat of legal action against any outlet publishing these screenshot? To the best of my knowledge, the lady hasn't being asked directly if they're real, but he has, but no firm statement from him. It doesn't look good.

Heard of NDA (non disclosure agreement) and more specifically after an investigation was done?

but surely that wouldn't preclude him saying if those leaks are legit

[Mogster]

If I was Horner, and I was 100% aware the “evidence” was fake, then I’m not sure any amount of legal advice would prevent me from confirming that publicly.

[Ground Effect]

I find it really weird. If Horner is NOT coming out and denying it, it must be true. If so, then if the woman is NOT coming out and confirming it, it must be false. Why is it not that the case?

This is the most direct he's been asked and he seems to be avoiding an answer, why though? If you're trying to clear your name, protect your wife, family, etc isn't it worth confirming their false? Where's the threat of legal action against any outlet publishing these screenshot? To the best of my knowledge, the lady hasn't being asked directly if they're real, but he has, but no firm statement from him. It doesn't look good.

Heard of NDA (non disclosure agreement) and more specifically after an investigation was done?

He wasn't asked about the investigation, he was asked about the leaved screenshot. Except there's a part of the NDA that states: If in future screenshots are leaked you cannot confirm or deny the authenticity... Talk about covering all areas..

[myurr]

IF the woman/victim at the center of all this comes forward to them i'd imagine they may have grounds but without that agree see no way it get that far. I'd perhaps question too even if RB gave them the report without her willing to be interviewed to verify without the original transcripts far even that takes them

The problem is that still won't suffice, because to bring the sport into disrepute, you have to have done something publicly. This is still a private matter, which got leaked. Neither Red Bull nor Horner is responsible for someone leaking it, unless the leak came from Red Bull itself.

For example, if it turns out Mintzlaff leaked it (as some suggests), then that could absolutely be used as an argument against Red Bull. But i doubt any action could be brought against Horner from the FIA. Horner is not responsible for his private matters leaking. By all accounts, this is still an internal Red Bull issue. The FIA is simply playing firefighters here, trying to put a damper on it.

Bringing the sport into disrepute is only half of rule 8.7. The other half is running the team in a manner compatible with the values of the sport. Covering up a serious sexual misconduct case and not giving the victim a fair complaints process, if that happened as is being reported, wouldn't be compatible with those values.

The problem facing both the FIA and sponsors like Ford is that inaction is tacit acceptance of what Red Bull / Horner are doing. As and when more details leak they absolutely will face questions of why they didn't act sooner.

Regardless you will see a complaint lodged by the teams. Toto at the very least is on record saying that it shouldn't need a complaint from the teams and that the FIA should act, but he didn't rule out making that complaint. I doubt he's going to let this one lie. He has no love for Horner, but has also been subscribed to Hamilton's efforts to bring more inclusiveness and equality to the sport. Horner's actions undermine those values. Plus it's the right thing to do.

[mendis]

This is the most direct he's been asked and he seems to be avoiding an answer, why though? If you're trying to clear your name, protect your wife, family, etc isn't it worth confirming their false? Where's the threat of legal action against any outlet publishing these screenshot? To the best of my knowledge, the lady hasn't being asked directly if they're real, but he has, but no firm statement from him. It doesn't look good.

Heard of NDA (non disclosure agreement) and more specifically after an investigation was done?

He wasn't asked about the investigation, he was asked about the leaved screenshot. Except there's a part of the NDA that states: If in future screenshots are leaked you cannot confirm or deny the authenticity... Talk about covering all areas..

Here I thought, anything related to an investigation is confidential! Didn't you wrote that NDA!

[Ground Effect]

Heard of NDA (non disclosure agreement) and more specifically after an investigation was done?

He wasn't asked about the investigation, he was asked about the leaved screenshot. Except there's a part of the NDA that states: If in future screenshots are leaked you cannot confirm or deny the authenticity... Talk about covering all areas..

Here I thought, anything related to an investigation is confidential! Didn't you wrote that NDA!

You think if a report came out after the investigation and said Horner raped the lady in question he wouldn't say that is totally flalse? You think he wouldn't come out and threaten legal action against whichever paper carried the story? Or would he say I can't comment, NDA etc?

[myurr]

F1 is the place for excitement, lavishness, risk, entertainment, and extravagance, not a place for moral high ground and family entertainment. So F1 communities should stop judging others' private lives.

FIA should go after the people who leak private conversations to discourage others from using character assassination as a tool to bring down rival teams.

Hypothetically, suppose if Christian Horner decided to step down, I would think that many team owners will be keen to engage him to turn their team to become RB.

Perhaps Jos is instigating this to get CH across to Ferrari so that Max can join him?

I hope that your daughter, loved ones, family, and friends doesn't include any women that have had to cope with a misogynistic sexual predator for a boss.

I've personally seen it happen, or have had someone later confide in me, in four separate cases and it is absolutely devastating for the victims. I also know of one other case of a friend of a friend who tragically took her life because she worked in a small industry (not unlike F1) and was hounded out of it - after she made her formal complaint her boss twisted the process to clear him, fired her, and bad mouthed her to the other companies in that industry.

If Christian Horner is guilty then he has wrecked some poor girl's life, who from her texts was already battling some problems in her private life. His actions have put her at the centre of a media storm, put her in an untenable position in her job, and put this scandal at the top of Google search results if you search her name.

Think of all the other women in the industry who will be at more risk of similar occurring should Horner get away with this. It's declaring that this kind of behaviour is acceptable within the F1 paddock. Shame on anyone who tries to excuse his behaviour or dismiss its importance.