2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

This is true. Regarding the mechanical aspect of our setup, Rob Marshall is no doubt helping refine the solution. David Sanchez will already be talking about his learnings from Ferrari, and the Ferrari does have a good front end from what I can see, so hopefully he can help us understand what we need to do with the Aerodynamics to have the aero functioning nicely at all speeds.

I suppose this year will be one that requires a good amount of patience.

[LionsHeart]

OK, so an interesting tidbit here. I've been suspecting for a while that we have an issue with a planted front and Lando seems to confirm as much when talking about Jeddah.

https://f1i.com/news/501584-norris-mcla ... ement.html

Queried on McLaren’s prospects next weekend in Jeddah’s high-speed environment, Norris believes the Saudi track should better suit the team’s MCL38.

"But it's also a track where you want to have a good front at apex and this is something we don't have at all, so there are still going to be things we're going to struggle with a lot.

"On average, the track speed is higher, which maybe should suit us a bit more, so I'm excited for it."

And regarding the pace vs Mercedes:

Norris admitted that gaining an upper hand over Russell was a tall order, even despite the Mercedes driver’s engine issues that weighed on his performance.

“We were close to Mercedes, I don't think we had any advantage over them," he added. "The pace was so similar that, as soon as I got into the dirty air, I didn't have enough of an advantage to have a chance to overtake or even get within DRS.

It’s pretty disappointing that this is still an issue they haven’t been able to fix.

Perhaps it's the nature of the car itself. And this car is not suited to tracks where the rear tyres are the limiting factor. Rear tyre wear is very high in Bahrain. At Suzuka, at Silverstone, it's not a problem. Increased tyre wear affects the balance, affects the stability of the rear end both at the entrance to Turn 14 and at the exit from it. Maybe that's why we have 0.25 seconds lost in one corner.

[CjC]

Simple fix, either stop reading the media… Or simply stop letting it bother you… Why is it important what the media says? I care about happens on track, the rest is just noise

Exactly.
However we have to get our information from somewhere so I have to read it.
It’s a thought I’ve been mulling over for a while- what do the current ‘top 3’ do for that name? Is it literally they finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd in the WCC?

The Top 3 Money Spenders for the last 10 years... +- $200 Million more than other teams annually...

But we are capped now so shouldn’t count, or do we think they have a baked in advantage over the others for spending so much more for such a long time?

[LionsHeart]

I think it is something they haven't yet tried to bring to the car. It feels like most of the Aero was held back, so it might be worth seeing what comes out of the first raft of upgrades. If we don't look good then, then I will be concerned I think. But don't let that take away from the fact that Bahrain was still a good opening performance from us.

I wonder if it’s aero or mechanical? Neither driver is complaining of aero balance issues that I’ve seen.

But you are correct, it’s a much better start to the season than recent years.

Both I should think. Even at lower speeds the floor is doing a lot of work, or should be. Stella remarked last year that we deal poorly with airflow from the front if the front wing isn't loaded enough. I may turn out to be totally wrong but this is what I think will be coming in the next upgrade.

The front wing has an influence on this, but also the pressure gradient under the floor and the point where this pressure is minimum, also affects the undercarriage roll. I would say in fast corners there is a high stability of airflow, which makes the car fast and docile, but in slow corners there is no grip on the front tyres for many reasons. I hope the team understands the root of the problems and knows how to solve them. The staff of engineers is strengthened and this should also contribute to the development of the chassis.

We just have to wait.

[LionsHeart]

This is true. Regarding the mechanical aspect of our setup, Rob Marshall is no doubt helping refine the solution. David Sanchez will already be talking about his learnings from Ferrari, and the Ferrari does have a good front end from what I can see, so hopefully he can help us understand what we need to do with the Aerodynamics to have the aero functioning nicely at all speeds.

I suppose this year will be one that requires a good amount of patience.

Oh, had I read your post a couple of minutes earlier, then I wouldn't have had to write the previous post at the top.
Totally agree.

[LionsHeart]

I understand correctly that Lando in the race complained to the engineer that the rear tyres are rapidly degrading, which forced the engineer to switch to another tactic - plan B?

I would not want to draw premature conclusions, but so far it seems that the car has inherited all the shortcomings of last year's chassis. Increased wear of the rear tyres, lack of stability in the rear, when there is little fuel in the tank, but with full tanks are in good order. Also remained the problem with the fact that the front part of the chassis turned not following where the wheels are turned. So some understeer in slow corners remained.

[De Wet]

Exactly.
However we have to get our information from somewhere so I have to read it.
It’s a thought I’ve been mulling over for a while- what do the current ‘top 3’ do for that name? Is it literally they finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd in the WCC?

The Top 3 Money Spenders for the last 10 years... +- $200 Million more than other teams annually...

But we are capped now so shouldn’t count, or do we think they have a baked in advantage over the others for spending so much more for such a long time?

Correct... The cap is relatively new...

[Mansell89]

Guys just a quick check- was it just the works team (Merc) who were struggling with managing engine temps or did ourselves or any other customer also manage in any way?

[SmallSoldier]

It’s a tough life for Mclaren and to be one of their fans….

Pre-season most of the media talked about the ‘top 3 big teams’ and Aston.
With the race finished, McLaren come home basically the 4th fastest team split in and around the Mercs yet they are deemed to be ‘losers’??

You get the feelings could only be classed as a ‘winner’ if they took the grand slam 1-2 by 30 seconds

Simple fix, either stop reading the media… Or simply stop letting it bother you… Why is it important what the media says? I care about happens on track, the rest is just noise

Exactly.
However we have to get our information from somewhere so I have to read it.
It’s a thought I’ve been mulling over for a while- what do the current ‘top 3’ do for that name? Is it literally they finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd in the WCC?

The “Top 3” name was coined during the hybrid era because Mercedes/Ferrari/RedBull were way ahead than the rest… During a very long period, all other midfield teams could fight for was P7-P20 unless there were reliability issues for the top 3, they weren’t going to sniff anything else.

Today, there really isn’t a top 3 anymore, McLaren is in there, so a Top 4 would be more accurate… The question is, can AMR join the fun? That would make it a Top 5… This may be one of the best seasons we have had in a while

[SmallSoldier]

It’s a tough life for Mclaren and to be one of their fans….

Pre-season most of the media talked about the ‘top 3 big teams’ and Aston.
With the race finished, McLaren come home basically the 4th fastest team split in and around the Mercs yet they are deemed to be ‘losers’??

You get the feelings could only be classed as a ‘winner’ if they took the grand slam 1-2 by 30 seconds

Simple fix, either stop reading the media… Or simply stop letting it bother you… Why is it important what the media says? I care about happens on track, the rest is just noise

Of course you're absolutely right. They're (the media) all busy agreeing with each other - their tune will change if and when McLaren smash Mercedes and close the gap to Ferrari next weekend.
I don't think it's unfair to say McLaren were on Mercedes pace at Bahrain and therefore 3rd=. Points show different but there's plenty to play for. Stella stated at testing they didn't have time to incorporate all the developments before Bahrain but there's performance to be found just in setup and understanding the car, before new parts arrive (at Suzuka?)

Yes, there is an expectation of parts for Suzuka, but it may be moved even to Imola, if they are not ready for Japan (the Team doesn’t want to introduce parts in a Sprint race weekend, which is very sensible given the lack of Practice time to analyze the new parts)… I personally don’t care if the media doesn’t turn around (of course they will have to if the team starts performing and getting podiums for example), but there are no Media Championship Points, lol… I just don’t give them too much credit and understand that they don’t know more compared to some here (and some here probably use way more data to make assessment than those guys)

[Darth-Piekus]

Maybe Im mistaken but Red Bull is going to be ruined as Horner might be forced to quit and Verstappen is already in talks with Toto Wolf and aparently Adrian Newey might also say goodbye. Considering we already have two good drivers that are the next big things should we go get Newey? I know that I asked that already but I feel its a golden opportunity to get the best in the game and create a Dream Team. They will also be reunited.

[SmallSoldier]

I’m failing to understand the apparent disappointment with what appears to be a gap to Red Bull in race pace… Red Bull had a sizable gap in race pace last year (which of course would vary depending on GP layout), did we expected them to not improve over the winter? If that gap has shorten, then I wouldn’t be disappointed, that would mean that McLaren found more time during winter than the current best team in the paddock.

[mwillems]

This is true. Regarding the mechanical aspect of our setup, Rob Marshall is no doubt helping refine the solution. David Sanchez will already be talking about his learnings from Ferrari, and the Ferrari does have a good front end from what I can see, so hopefully he can help us understand what we need to do with the Aerodynamics to have the aero functioning nicely at all speeds.

I suppose this year will be one that requires a good amount of patience.

Oh, had I read your post a couple of minutes earlier, then I wouldn't have had to write the previous post at the top.
Totally agree.

Whilst the mechanical is always part of the solution when it comes to adding more grip, it can only go so far. Over the winter a big part of work that occurred on the car was mechanical, to create a more stable platform and to add more grip at the rear axle.

Despite this, we can see that the same problems remain and don't seem much better than where we left them last year. So it is possible that more work is required to dial in these cars, but I think it start to become more clear that there is also an aero issue. The reason I look at the front is because it is used for conditioning the air that is going to rearwards, whether it be directing air flow to the floor or how we deal with the tyre wake.

Last year in Singapore we improved the car by dealing better with tyre wake at low speeds, this included changes to the front pontoon to catch and deal with some of that airflow earlier. The sidepods are no longer doing this like last year but the car isn't worse in the slow corners, so the manner in which it deals with the airflow at slow speeds has got better, in that the pontoons can be shaped less with this issue in mind and more with the undercut.

It's also worth noting that apart from in low load / low downforce config, the car had very good traction from corners and from the standing start last year with the most notable trait of the car when it comes to balance being understeer. The V shaped profile of some corners also led me to believe that this was to avoid a corner profile that required consistent generation of downforce from the floor, because we couldn't generate downforce at low loads consistently, therefore the team used an approach using more mechanical grip.

So with everything that I have observed anecdotally over the past year I've tended to see this a need of stable aerodynamics that needs both a mechanical and aerodynamic solution. The mechanical platform has been created, but I'm not seeing much that has changed by way of Aero that will take advantage of it.

When the team talk about all the potential this new car will bring, this is what comes to mind for me, a new package on top of the car that will work better with this platform including new Sidepods and Floor to replace the "placeholder" that went on the launch car and a new front of the car designed to work in the window of the new platform.

I'm not suggesting it will look hugely different, just that it will be much more refined.

And maybe it will be less like a reliant robin!

[LionsHeart]

Guys just a quick check- was it just the works team (Merc) who were struggling with managing engine temps or did ourselves or any other customer also manage in any way?

I think it's all about the engine cowl. The conditions were cool on race day, below 20 degrees Celsius. A bit of an atypically cool condition. Maybe Mercedes closed the louvres to improve the aerodynamic efficiency, but overdid it and got engine overheating. Aston and McLaren had no such problems.

[LionsHeart]

This is true. Regarding the mechanical aspect of our setup, Rob Marshall is no doubt helping refine the solution. David Sanchez will already be talking about his learnings from Ferrari, and the Ferrari does have a good front end from what I can see, so hopefully he can help us understand what we need to do with the Aerodynamics to have the aero functioning nicely at all speeds.

I suppose this year will be one that requires a good amount of patience.

Oh, had I read your post a couple of minutes earlier, then I wouldn't have had to write the previous post at the top.
Totally agree.

Whilst the mechanical is always part of the solution when it comes to adding more grip, it can only go so far. Over the winter a big part of work that occurred on the car was mechanical, to create a more stable platform and to add more grip at the rear axle.

Despite this, we can see that the same problems remain and don't seem much better than where we left them last year. So it is possible that more work is required to dial in these cars, but I think it start to become more clear that there is also an aero issue. The reason I look at the front is because it is used for conditioning the air that is going to rearwards, whether it be directing air flow to the floor or how we deal with the tyre wake.

Last year in Singapore we improved the car by dealing better with tyre wake at low speeds, this included changes to the front pontoon to catch and deal with some of that airflow earlier. The sidepods are no longer doing this like last year but the car isn't worse in the slow corners, so the manner in which it deals with the airflow at slow speeds has got better, in that the pontoons can be shaped less with this issue in mind and more with the undercut.

It's also worth noting that apart from in low load / low downforce config, the car had very good traction from corners and from the standing start last year with the most notable trait of the car when it comes to balance being understeer. The V shaped profile of some corners also led me to believe that this was to avoid a corner profile that required consistent generation of downforce from the floor, because we couldn't generate downforce at low loads consistently, therefore the team used an approach using more mechanical grip.

So with everything that I have observed anecdotally over the past year I've tended to see this a need of stable aerodynamics that needs both a mechanical and aerodynamic solution. The mechanical platform has been created, but I'm not seeing much that has changed by way of Aero that will take advantage of it.

When the team talk about all the potential this new car will bring, this is what comes to mind for me, a new package on top of the car that will work better with this platform including new Sidepods and Floor to replace the "placeholder" that went on the launch car and a new front of the car designed to work in the window of the new platform.

I'm not suggesting it will look hugely different, just that it will be much more refined.

And maybe it will be less like a reliant robin!

Yes, very sound reasoning. Point problems noted that I'd already forgotten a bit about. Apparently that's the way it is. The chassis has been redesigned, the suspension front and rear has been redesigned, and the aerodynamic platform has been retained from last year. We'll probably have to wait for changes to both the front wing and the new floor. Venturi channels, floor edges and possibly diffuser geometry will be redesigned. It is possible that the side pontoons and the engine bonnet will also undergo some changes.

On the test guys wrote that the rear suspension now uses torsion bars instead of disc springs? Or did the rear suspension only use coil springs? I'm not as familiar with the rear suspension design as I am with the front. Maybe here in the team will find more optimal settings, so that without loss in stability and grip also reduce tyre wear, where the load is mainly on the rear wheels.

Well, and increase the efficiency of DRS, improve stability in slow corners in the configuration with low downforce. If you think about it, there are a lot of areas that need improvement.