2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

[DChemTech]

The question is why only one team have aced these regulations? I mean they even changed their concept this year...seems odd no one has converged to make the field closer. And RB haven't been cheating or skirting the rules...so what's the excuse for other teams?

When you are far ahead like Red Bull you can start thinking about next year far earlier and maintaining that advantage year-on-year despite less ATR. Less wind tunnel actually isn't a disadvantage when you have so much time to focus more on ideas with high quality. The massive update that they have for race 7 allegedly probably means that from then on they will be 100% focused on next year, while everyone will try and balance resources on in season updates + next year.

Thinking about next year is a choice. All teams can in principle write off this year already, and start thinking about radically new concepts for next year. Yet noone really managed, most of them did not get further than copying Red Bull. That's not RBs fault.

And yes, perhaps a season like last year is boring. So is a season where a few teams throw in triple the money the rest does, and one of them dominates. I'd 10000x rather have a budget-capped series where a single team dominates, than a pay-to-win series; at least in the former, the domination is due to the talent of the team and not the depth of their pockets, at least making it possible to call the whole affair a sports.

[rijtuig]

FIA f'ed up. In the land of the blind, Newey is the only one who as a clear understanding. If that was not the case - explain me how it is possible that so many teams were troubled by porpoising?

FIA gave this on a silver platter to RBR. We've seen how many times Merc innovations were called back. Haven't seen any with RB.

Sure, it’s all one great conspiracy. Next stop, UFOs are really extraterrestrial

As to Merc innovations that were called back: DAS wasn’t stopped, it was outlawed a year later but they were allowed to race it for the season. Didn’t have any material impact on their season or the next.
Anything else?

TD39 was called for by Toto to nerf RB19 except it didn’t…

Clearly my comment made you emotional.

Frankly speaking, I was clearly referring the moaning that was there for 8 years that Merc had an advantage because they were already working on hybrid engines (I believe even Renault was but ok).

How's that different from now?

[maxxer]

FIA f'ed up. In the land of the blind, Newey is the only one who as a clear understanding. If that was not the case - explain me how it is possible that so many teams were troubled by porpoising?

FIA gave this on a silver platter to RBR. We've seen how many times Merc innovations were called back. Haven't seen any with RB.

Sure, it’s all one great conspiracy. Next stop, UFOs are really extraterrestrial

As to Merc innovations that were called back: DAS wasn’t stopped, it was outlawed a year later but they were allowed to race it for the season. Didn’t have any material impact on their season or the next.
Anything else?

TD39 was called for by Toto to nerf RB19 except it didn’t…

Clearly my comment made you emotional.

Frankly speaking, I was clearly referring the moaning that was there for 8 years that Merc had an advantage because they were already working on hybrid engines (I believe even Renault was but ok).

How's that different from now?

Renault was working on it but held back by Mr Adrian who didnt like the big batteries I remember

[101FlyingDutchman]

FIA f'ed up. In the land of the blind, Newey is the only one who as a clear understanding. If that was not the case - explain me how it is possible that so many teams were troubled by porpoising?

FIA gave this on a silver platter to RBR. We've seen how many times Merc innovations were called back. Haven't seen any with RB.

Sure, it’s all one great conspiracy. Next stop, UFOs are really extraterrestrial

As to Merc innovations that were called back: DAS wasn’t stopped, it was outlawed a year later but they were allowed to race it for the season. Didn’t have any material impact on their season or the next.
Anything else?

TD39 was called for by Toto to nerf RB19 except it didn’t…

Clearly my comment made you emotional.

Frankly speaking, I was clearly referring the moaning that was there for 8 years that Merc had an advantage because they were already working on hybrid engines (I believe even Renault was but ok).

How's that different from now?

Emotional je bent wel een Hollander hoor.
I’m always amazed that all the praise solely goes to Newey. The RB unit as a whole is I think the best functioning team I’ve ever seen. Trackside/headoffice/strategy/technical. It all just works. I commend them for that. My team (MCL) has a long way to go, and for that matter ANY other F1 team. As like Merc before, RB has set the bar and then raised it again

[rijtuig]

Of ik Nederlander ben of niet, je reageert alsnog emo! HAHA!

You are dwaling off, is Newey one of the only engineers on the grid that fully understands ground effects as no other? Yes or no? If it is no, do explain why so many teams were having challenges with porpoising? I mean, most likely all of them are highly educated engineers who understand aero, but hey, it still happend.

[AR3-GP]

deleted

[DChemTech]

Of ik Nederlander ben of niet, je reageert alsnog emo! HAHA!

You are dwaling off, is Newey one of the only engineers on the grid that fully understands ground effects as no other? Yes or no? If it is no, do explain why so many teams were having challenges with porpoising? I mean, most likely all of them are highly educated engineers who understand aero, but hey, it still happend.

Well, porpoising requires more than just understanding aero. Aero-mechanical interactions are a different cookie. Which most engineers that have only been active in F1 (or not for decades) likely didn't encounter before. That aside, there might have been an element of luck - if you started with a design that had less porpoising (be it through informed decision or luck), you'd certainly have been more wary of it in further development through the observations of other teams. And if you started with a design that was more forgiving in floor clearance, you may have had more options to work around the issue.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Of ik Nederlander ben of niet, je reageert alsnog emo! HAHA!

You are dwaling off, is Newey one of the only engineers on the grid that fully understands ground effects as no other? Yes or no? If it is no, do explain why so many teams were having challenges with porpoising? I mean, most likely all of them are highly educated engineers who understand aero, but hey, it still happend.

No I am not veering off course. I’m just countering the fact it was given to RB on a silver platter which I believe is not the case. And I certainly don’t agree with the insinuation that somehow RB has been getting away with no nerfs and that somehow they’re treated differently by F1/Liberty. I don’t believe in conspiracies.

[maxxer]

Also remember with this change was the suspension change which merc was very good at and was brought back to simple elements for some reason.
That will always be me , if they had their advanced suspension they wouldnt have porpoising. Maybe i am wrong

[rijtuig]

Of ik Nederlander ben of niet, je reageert alsnog emo! HAHA!

You are dwaling off, is Newey one of the only engineers on the grid that fully understands ground effects as no other? Yes or no? If it is no, do explain why so many teams were having challenges with porpoising? I mean, most likely all of them are highly educated engineers who understand aero, but hey, it still happend.

Well, porpoising requires more than just understanding aero. Aero-mechanical interactions are a different cookie. Which most engineers that have only been active in F1 (or not for decades) likely didn't encounter before. That aside, there might have been an element of luck - if you started with a design that had less porpoising (be it through informed decision or luck), you'd certainly have been more wary of it in further development through the observations of other teams. And if you started with a design that was more forgiving in floor clearance, you may have had more options to work around the issue.

Whatever we call it - informed decision, luck or calculated.

[f1isgood]

Also remember with this change was the suspension change which merc was very good at and was brought back to simple elements for some reason.
That will always be me , if they had their advanced suspension they wouldnt have porpoising. Maybe i am wrong

It has to simply do with the fact that suspensions were becoming too complicated to be policed, and we were entering a budget cap era where expensive suspensions were simply not sustainable.

The regulations were available in 2020. I don't think it's a targeted nerf at anyone. People have a wrong thought process to F1 in general -- make up intentions based on on-track results. Not how it works and has worked.

Just like Merc before, RB are just doing a better job everywhere, and that's why they are winning. It is what it is.

2026 might very well see Aston Martin win championships.

[cplchanb]

i think we need to start to warm up to these terms:

-BoP
-success ballast

without these in the current budget cap, stable reg, prescriptive regs F1 will die.
at least back in the ferrari and merc dynasties you had teams that can give them a run for their money, but now its out of everyones reach.

[maxxer]

Also remember with this change was the suspension change which merc was very good at and was brought back to simple elements for some reason.
That will always be me , if they had their advanced suspension they wouldnt have porpoising. Maybe i am wrong

It has to simply do with the fact that suspensions were becoming too complicated to be policed, and we were entering a budget cap era where expensive suspensions were simply not sustainable.

The regulations were available in 2020. I don't think it's a targeted nerf at anyone. People have a wrong thought process to F1 in general -- make up intentions based on on-track results. Not how it works and has worked.

Just like Merc before, RB are just doing a better job everywhere, and that's why they are winning. It is what it is.

2026 might very well see Aston Martin win championships.

Indeed it is what it is and i dont mind it , just it takes so long for a new one to step up to surprise

[AR3-GP]

i think we need to start to warm up to these terms:

-BoP
-success ballast

without these in the current budget cap, stable reg, prescriptive regs F1 will die.
at least back in the ferrari and merc dynasties you had teams that can give them a run for their money, but now its out of everyones reach.

Why spend money to get faster when it's taken away from you with success ballast and bop?

[Jdn1327]

A very silly question here...what would be the cost implications of going back to the old spec cars? 2021 to be specific. I know it's a pipe dream but would it be more cost effective than the current cars