Christian Horner under Investigation

[myurr]

Redacting evidence that only concerns two people can hardly qualify as redacting. It would be obvious who the evidence concerned.

Also, I'm not talking about data protection laws. I'm talking about simple privacy laws. In most western countries, there's laws that protects written correspondence (and spoken conversations) from being illicitly obtained, spied on or recorded by third parties. It's usually illegal to share correspondance between people, unless you are a participant of the conversation. Red Bull was handed evidence by the complainant, and as such they - and the lawyer they appointed - are privy to that evidence. They cannot share it outside of that, unless given permission.

That depends on whether a company device or company account was used to send the messages and the policies in place to cover such use. You would expect Red Bull to have a policy that explicitly covers the use of such devices, and in the case of BYOD for the use of personal equipment for company work. At least some of the messages involved are sent from work devices (Horner references attempting to call both of her phones for instance), and many of the problem messages are interspersed within messages obviously related to work. It's not as clearcut as you say.

Briatore challenged the exclusion in court and won. A court ruled that the exclusion was illicit. The same goes for Pat Simmonds. They were even entitled to compensation.

I believe that in the wake of that ruling the FIA changed their policies after to ensure team principals had a license to compete.

And just like Briatore did, Horner can challenge that in court, and is likely to win.

The FIA does not have as much power and influence as you believe they do in this matter. This is a jurisdiction matter. The FIA isn't - and shouldn't - be interfering in employee affairs at company. They're charged with running the motorsports. That's their job.

Someone blew a private matter open (or posted faked evidence, but let's assume not). That's a big PR problem for Red Bull. But it's not a legal problem.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've point out the rules I believe Red Bull could be judged to have been in breach. If they cannot sanction Horner directly then they can definitely sanction the team.

It may well be a moot point anyway as the team appears to be disintegrating as each day passes.

[ScottB]

I guess there's a general point about bringing the sport into disrepute, but unsure if the FIA has specific statutes or definition of what that would be. Or F1 itself for that matter.

[Mandrake]

Why is Ford so Quick to jump out? It's about 2026 so plenty of time to get there. To the public right now nothing really links Red Rull and Ford.

And how do the reports of united team at Milton Keynes and applause for Horner go together with Jos' comments and the rumours of Newey leaving? Almost like this is planned to break RedBulls advantage and take key players out

[vorticism]

I've noticed a corollary: there are some here who were convinced that the reveal RB20 was fake. They were convinced that RB was trying to deceive them. This despite RB having no history of creating fake physical parts, even before cost caps. The only time they did it that I can recall was way back on the RB6 when the placed exhaust stickers on the car. Stickers are, notably, much cheaper than molded or printed parts. I digress. No fake RB20 existed though; what was shown is what's been raced. Some of those same users mentioned before are again here ITT convinced that RB or Horner are lying; convinced that RB or Horner are again trying to deceive them. Interesting.

I would like the opportunity of offer a scientific analysis of this media exercise. An engineer's approach to understanding it if you will, but I'm not sure if it would be permitted. Please DM any assurances to the contrary.

Really wonder how long it will be before the media get bored of it all.

They never will. It's quite literally the only reason they exist. They are staffed by paid typists, paid to type, paid only to type; within the broader context of legacy media's main purpose: to force memes.

This thread does cause me to wonder if some here have ever read a newspaper and experienced a sense of incredulity or disbelief; or if the newspaper causes only a constant stream of gasps and guffaws, article after article.

[f1isgood]

Why is Ford so Quick to jump out? It's about 2026 so plenty of time to get there. To the public right now nothing really links Red Rull and Ford.

And how do the reports of united team at Milton Keynes and applause for Horner go together with Jos' comments and the rumours of Newey leaving? Almost like this is planned to break RedBulls advantage and take key players out

Probably all part of Austrian side of RB to force Horner to resign and make a point to the Thai side and just using Ford as an enabler. Ford is a branding exercise for RBPT at a meta-level. The engine is more or less done from scratch at Milton Keynes. So I just think this is the most valid theory for this case.

[vorticism]

And how do the reports of united team at Milton Keynes and applause for Horner go together with Jos' comments and the rumours of Newey leaving? Almost like this is planned to break RedBulls advantage and take key players out

Consider that none of these things are happening; that sentences and paragraphs within press articles are not real nor tangible things outside of themselves. The existence of a sentence does not always imply the existence of anything other than patterns of ink or transient phosphorescence of LCD pixels.

Protips: words like "reportedly" often preface fictional claims, and beware the wikipedia fallacy: that a URL, any URL at all, is not only a source, but proof.

[SoulPancake13]

Definitely seems the Merc rumors are just pressure to get Horner out for now then. Quote about Marko in the article is very important though, Max really is loyal to Marko.

[Mattchu]

For anyone who says the investigation was done, that should be the end of it, just look at the recent Post Office scandal that shows sometimes things aren`t as they seem!

Now I`m in no way saying these 2 cases are anything like each other, Horner may have done absolutely nothing untoward at all and this is just a fabricated powerplay or payback for something else.
The recent "leaked" stuff may all be fake, we just don`t know, the whole thing seems to have been handled in a way that more questions get asked than answers are given.
The supposition becomes rampant and all manner of press outlets jump to conclusions based off this, that or the other. Hopefully the truth comes out, I doubt it will, this will be next months chip wrappers...

[AMG.Tzan]

Guys what in the world? When did this thread reach 110 pages??

I really now hope Horner doesn’t leave! As much as I dislike him, the guy built the whole team from ground up all by himself from the ruins of Jaguar! Without him this team probably would have been nowhere!

So if the Verstapens or Marko don’t like him…just leave! Go ahead and join Mercedes! It’ll be great for the sport and it’ll give Max the greatness of having left the best car to win with a legendary manufacturer…! Something like Schumacher after 1995…

[dans79]

Why is Ford so Quick to jump out? It's about 2026 so plenty of time to get there. To the public right now nothing really links Red Rull and Ford.

Generally speaking, over the last 10 years or so companies in the sates have started to distance themselves from anyone or anything that appears to violate social norms.

[dialtone]

Why is Ford so Quick to jump out? It's about 2026 so plenty of time to get there. To the public right now nothing really links Red Rull and Ford.

Generally speaking, over the last 10 years or so companies in the sates have started to distance themselves from anyone or anything that appears to violate social norms.

That’s unlikely why. They’ve shown how they were treated by RBR during this event, that’s not partnership behavior, anyone here would look out of a relationship where you were unable to have clear communication but were kept in the dark.

[vorticism]

Why is Ford so Quick to jump out? It's about 2026 so plenty of time to get there. To the public right now nothing really links Red Rull and Ford.

Generally speaking, over the last 10 years or so companies in the sates have started to distance themselves from anyone or anything that appears to violate social norms.

Social norms being a highly variable term in this context; ultimately meaningless without specificity within cultural and temporal contexts. If there is a dynamic of transnational megacorp HR/PR policy at play then many intriguing storylines can be inferred--none of which have been discussed ITT yet.

[dans79]

Why is Ford so Quick to jump out? It's about 2026 so plenty of time to get there. To the public right now nothing really links Red Rull and Ford.

Generally speaking, over the last 10 years or so companies in the sates have started to distance themselves from anyone or anything that appears to violate social norms.

Social norms being a highly variable term in this context; ultimately meaningless without specificity within cultural and temporal contexts. If there is a dynamic of transnational megacorp HR/PR policy at play then many intriguing storylines can be inferred--none of which have been discussed ITT yet.

[dans79]

Social norms being a highly variable term in this context; ultimately meaningless without specificity within cultural and temporal contexts.

Of course social norms can be good and bad. A global beer manufacture had a massive issue last year (that they still haven't recovered form), because of a polarizing ad campaign.

Either way what Horner is publicly being accused of (extramarital affair), is still generally frowned upon, and some studies have shown younger Americans are less tolerant of it than older ones. for example as mentioned in this article.

https://www.newsweek.com/cheating-more- ... ple-632356

The study, titled "America's New Generation Gap in Extramarital Sex" and published July 5 by the Institute for Family Studies, reveals that 20 percent of married Americans over the age of 55 say they have had extramarital sex, while just 14 percent of married Americans under 55 have gotten it on with someone other than their legal partner. The study's findings are the result of an analysis of data from the General Social Survey, which has provided an unbiased record of American attitudes on various subjects since 1972.

The study found that extramarital affairs were carried out mostly by younger people until around 2000, when the percentage of Americans aged 18-55 engaging in extramarital affairs began to drop, while the percentage of married people 55 and older seeking sex from people other than their spouse began to rise. That number has nearly doubled since 1991, when around 10 percent of older Americans said they had engaged in extramarital affairs.

[myurr]

Either way what Horner is publicly being accused of (extramarital affair), is still generally frowned upon, and some studies have shown younger Americans are less tolerant of it than older ones.

An extramarital affair, whilst distasteful, isn't the issue. It's the accusations of abusing his position of power to sexually harass a subordinate that is the problem.