2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

Yes, very sound reasoning. Point problems noted that I'd already forgotten a bit about. Apparently that's the way it is. The chassis has been redesigned, the suspension front and rear has been redesigned, and the aerodynamic platform has been retained from last year. We'll probably have to wait for changes to both the front wing and the new floor. Venturi channels, floor edges and possibly diffuser geometry will be redesigned. It is possible that the side pontoons and the engine bonnet will also undergo some changes.

On the test guys wrote that the rear suspension now uses torsion bars instead of disc springs? Or did the rear suspension only use coil springs? I'm not as familiar with the rear suspension design as I am with the front. Maybe here in the team will find more optimal settings, so that without loss in stability and grip also reduce tyre wear, where the load is mainly on the rear wheels.

Well, and increase the efficiency of DRS, improve stability in slow corners in the configuration with low downforce. If you think about it, there are a lot of areas that need improvement.

That's F1, a never ending drive to find time!

I think a lot of the things we want to do come down to getting more downforce and keeping those levels consistent to make the car easy enough for the drivers to predict.

There are certainly torsion bars at the front and I thought the rear too, but on this my memory is wavering. I do think there is more for them to understand with the mechanical setup of the car.

But it is like you say, we need to watch a few more races, see what the team brings to the car, watch a few more races and it may be that we don't get a real competitive understanding of the work the team have done until closer to the summer break.

[LionsHeart]

Yes, very sound reasoning. Point problems noted that I'd already forgotten a bit about. Apparently that's the way it is. The chassis has been redesigned, the suspension front and rear has been redesigned, and the aerodynamic platform has been retained from last year. We'll probably have to wait for changes to both the front wing and the new floor. Venturi channels, floor edges and possibly diffuser geometry will be redesigned. It is possible that the side pontoons and the engine bonnet will also undergo some changes.

On the test guys wrote that the rear suspension now uses torsion bars instead of disc springs? Or did the rear suspension only use coil springs? I'm not as familiar with the rear suspension design as I am with the front. Maybe here in the team will find more optimal settings, so that without loss in stability and grip also reduce tyre wear, where the load is mainly on the rear wheels.

Well, and increase the efficiency of DRS, improve stability in slow corners in the configuration with low downforce. If you think about it, there are a lot of areas that need improvement.

That's F1, a never ending drive to find time!

I think a lot of the things we want to do come down to getting more downforce and keeping those levels consistent to make the car easy enough for the drivers to predict.

There are certainly torsion bars at the front and I thought the rear too, but on this my memory is wavering. I do think there is more for them to understand with the mechanical setup of the car.

But it is like you say, we need to watch a few more races, see what the team brings to the car, watch a few more races and it may be that we don't get a real competitive understanding of the work the team have done until closer to the summer break.

I hope this realisation comes sooner rather than later. After qualifying I was glad to see the mood lift on the forum. But after the race, perhaps some will now have a tempered assessment for the future. Either way, I'm happy for the team. A tremendous amount of work has been done over the year. In general, the pace in the race was 3-4, with some nuances, perhaps theoretically the car could go faster, then it would be a pure 3 speed among the teams. Anyway, McLaren finished the season in Abu Dhabi fourth fastest, so nothing fatal here.

I understand and even know in advance that in the next races there will be more suitable tracks, and the gap from the leader should decrease, in some races the team will be able to fight for the lead, firmly occupying the second force. On the other hand, we have to admit that the car is not yet omnivorous and universal. But if the team is able to significantly reduce the weaknesses of the car, I think Lando and Oscar will be able to compete consistently among the leaders.

[djos]

OK, so an interesting tidbit here. I've been suspecting for a while that we have an issue with a planted front and Lando seems to confirm as much when talking about Jeddah.

https://f1i.com/news/501584-norris-mcla ... ement.html

Queried on McLaren’s prospects next weekend in Jeddah’s high-speed environment, Norris believes the Saudi track should better suit the team’s MCL38.

"But it's also a track where you want to have a good front at apex and this is something we don't have at all, so there are still going to be things we're going to struggle with a lot.

"On average, the track speed is higher, which maybe should suit us a bit more, so I'm excited for it."

And regarding the pace vs Mercedes:

Norris admitted that gaining an upper hand over Russell was a tall order, even despite the Mercedes driver’s engine issues that weighed on his performance.

“We were close to Mercedes, I don't think we had any advantage over them," he added. "The pace was so similar that, as soon as I got into the dirty air, I didn't have enough of an advantage to have a chance to overtake or even get within DRS.

It’s pretty disappointing that this is still an issue they haven’t been able to fix.

Perhaps it's the nature of the car itself. And this car is not suited to tracks where the rear tyres are the limiting factor. Rear tyre wear is very high in Bahrain. At Suzuka, at Silverstone, it's not a problem. Increased tyre wear affects the balance, affects the stability of the rear end both at the entrance to Turn 14 and at the exit from it. Maybe that's why we have 0.25 seconds lost in one corner.

Certainly possible. For the last couple of years Lando has complained he can’t drive corners the way he wants to, I really hope the new Ferrari hires can help the team resolve this.

It feels like this is is the final step McLaren need to make to challenge Ferrari consistently, and catch RedBull.

[mwillems]

I hope this realisation comes sooner rather than later. After qualifying I was glad to see the mood lift on the forum. But after the race, perhaps some will now have a tempered assessment for the future. Either way, I'm happy for the team. A tremendous amount of work has been done over the year. In general, the pace in the race was 3-4, with some nuances, perhaps theoretically the car could go faster, then it would be a pure 3 speed among the teams. Anyway, McLaren finished the season in Abu Dhabi fourth fastest, so nothing fatal here.

I understand and even know in advance that in the next races there will be more suitable tracks, and the gap from the leader should decrease, in some races the team will be able to fight for the lead, firmly occupying the second force. On the other hand, we have to admit that the car is not yet omnivorous and universal. But if the team is able to significantly reduce the weaknesses of the car, I think Lando and Oscar will be able to compete consistently among the leaders.

Just going back to a subjective post I made a few days back... Everything on the Launch car was developed in the old tunnel, Cologne. This tunnel is not able to test Yaw, amongst other things. It is the new tunnel that the "upgrades" have been developed within since August.

If the testing of Yaw from an Aero perspective is part of the work to unlock low speed improvements, then this is one more piece of information that correlates with an Aero issue, as the inability to test yaw is something that has carried over with this current car.

Like at Jeddah where we don't have a great nose at the apex or in slow corners, our issues occur when we have the wheels turned and the aero is not in a place that we can easily design for. I suspect that in high load situations this problem works itself out more but still remains as a performance inhibitor, just less so at higher speeds.

With everything I've posted previously, I'm as certain as I can be that the main culprit is dealing with airflow from the front portion of the car, including behind the wheels, under yaw.

[BMMR61]

I recall Stella saying last year when it was confirmed the new tunnel was operational that the MCL60 updates would be developed in the Cologne tunnel and the new car (MCL38?) would be the sole focus of the new tunnel. Now I'm wondering with the late development of aspects of the 38 (now said to have been developed on the old tunnel) that perhaps the correlation work on the new tunnel had been not entirely satisfactory. It is a hallmark of the new engineering team under Stella that process is always evaluated, never rushed into adoption (probably A-M's problems last year).

So my assumptions based on team statements are - the tunnel is being implemented 12 months later than earlier planned, this delay in implementation has put the launch spec behind schedule and made some of the more ambitious properties for the new car, out of reach at this time. We did get a hint (from the team I think) that Suzuka would be the first round of major upgrades, now it's delayed until Imola (because of the compromises of sprint weekends as Mercedes found on at least one occasion). It does seem a bit reminiscent of Bahrain to Austria last year, though we are starting from a much higher base this year. Maybe a development curve out of sync with the season and the other teams isn't such a bad idea anyway as it provides an on track indicator of your development work rather than it being done mainly in the winter break.

[Emag]

What's interesting is that Stella said after Bahrain that the low speed weakness is actually aero related and that the team's main priority at the moment is to make the aero platform work better at low speeds.

Its baffling to me how aero can have such a huge effect on performance when the car is going slower than 100 kmh

Edit :

Source for the info -> https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-n ... de-package

[littlebigcat]

Could’ve he have meant it’s aero related as they needs to compromise mechanics set up in a way that enables better high speed aero performance? The result of this is poor low speed cornering.

[the EDGE]

What's interesting is that Stella said after Bahrain that the low speed weakness is actually aero related and that the team's main priority at the moment is to make the aero platform work better at low speeds.

Its baffling to me how aero can have such a huge effect on performance when the car is going slower than 100 kmh

When you stick your arm out of the window at 100kmh you can still feel how much influence air has.

[FittingMechanics]

What's interesting is that Stella said after Bahrain that the low speed weakness is actually aero related and that the team's main priority at the moment is to make the aero platform work better at low speeds.

Its baffling to me how aero can have such a huge effect on performance when the car is going slower than 100 kmh

Edit :

Source for the info -> https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-n ... de-package

I don't have the data for 100 kmh but this is what can be found for slightly higher:
"Modern Formula One cars can typically generate around 750 kg — or 1,653 pounds — of downforce at speeds of 100 mph."

Maybe it is half that at 100kph, that is still about 50% of the weight of the car. If you have 10% less downforce at low speed compared to your rivals, you will struggle at low speed. F1 cars even in slow corners are usually rather fast.

[LionsHeart]

I hope this realisation comes sooner rather than later. After qualifying I was glad to see the mood lift on the forum. But after the race, perhaps some will now have a tempered assessment for the future. Either way, I'm happy for the team. A tremendous amount of work has been done over the year. In general, the pace in the race was 3-4, with some nuances, perhaps theoretically the car could go faster, then it would be a pure 3 speed among the teams. Anyway, McLaren finished the season in Abu Dhabi fourth fastest, so nothing fatal here.

I understand and even know in advance that in the next races there will be more suitable tracks, and the gap from the leader should decrease, in some races the team will be able to fight for the lead, firmly occupying the second force. On the other hand, we have to admit that the car is not yet omnivorous and universal. But if the team is able to significantly reduce the weaknesses of the car, I think Lando and Oscar will be able to compete consistently among the leaders.

Just going back to a subjective post I made a few days back... Everything on the Launch car was developed in the old tunnel, Cologne. This tunnel is not able to test Yaw, amongst other things. It is the new tunnel that the "upgrades" have been developed within since August.

If the testing of Yaw from an Aero perspective is part of the work to unlock low speed improvements, then this is one more piece of information that correlates with an Aero issue, as the inability to test yaw is something that has carried over with this current car.

Like at Jeddah where we don't have a great nose at the apex or in slow corners, our issues occur when we have the wheels turned and the aero is not in a place that we can easily design for. I suspect that in high load situations this problem works itself out more but still remains as a performance inhibitor, just less so at higher speeds.

With everything I've posted previously, I'm as certain as I can be that the main culprit is dealing with airflow from the front portion of the car, including behind the wheels, under yaw.

Yes, that's quite possible. But it is difficult for me to judge to what extent it is a bail of the underbody and to what extent it is a bail of the front wing. I'd rather let the team answer that question.

[LionsHeart]

Finally:
https://x.com/McLarenF1_News/status/176 ... 17404?s=20

[_cerber1]

I think PhilipM talked about this, that the lower the front wing is to the asphalt, the more downforce it generates at low speed.

[LionsHeart]

What's interesting is that Stella said after Bahrain that the low speed weakness is actually aero related and that the team's main priority at the moment is to make the aero platform work better at low speeds.

Its baffling to me how aero can have such a huge effect on performance when the car is going slower than 100 kmh

Edit :

Source for the info -> https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-n ... de-package

I wrote about this back during the tests. Or right after. I was surprised then that the car did the whole lap at a speed of no more than 100 km/h, but in the corners it drove in an attacking style. Then I first thought that the team is trying to find out the distribution of air flow at low speeds. As a rule, the flowvise is tested at higher speeds, but then the flow distribution is different.

[LionsHeart]

What's interesting is that Stella said after Bahrain that the low speed weakness is actually aero related and that the team's main priority at the moment is to make the aero platform work better at low speeds.

Its baffling to me how aero can have such a huge effect on performance when the car is going slower than 100 kmh

When you stick your arm out of the window at 100kmh you can still feel how much influence air has.

I'll say more than that. One time in my car, I didn't close the door all the way. I left the city, I was already driving on the highway, speed 80 km/h and I hear something rattling, having determined and understood that it is not completely closed driver's door, I tried to open and slam it properly. And what do you think? It took a lot of strength to open the door. The airflow resisted me. That's when I first realised what it was. And the footprint of the door is not that big compared to the footprint of the whole underbody of an F1 car.

[LionsHeart]

What's interesting is that Stella said after Bahrain that the low speed weakness is actually aero related and that the team's main priority at the moment is to make the aero platform work better at low speeds.

Its baffling to me how aero can have such a huge effect on performance when the car is going slower than 100 kmh

Edit :

Source for the info -> https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-n ... de-package

I don't have the data for 100 kmh but this is what can be found for slightly higher:
"Modern Formula One cars can typically generate around 750 kg — or 1,653 pounds — of downforce at speeds of 100 mph."

Maybe it is half that at 100kph, that is still about 50% of the weight of the car. If you have 10% less downforce at low speed compared to your rivals, you will struggle at low speed. F1 cars even in slow corners are usually rather fast.

Downforce depends on the square of the speed, right? The higher the speed, the higher the downforce and vice versa. At slow speeds, there is very little downforce and this is where the wings play a big role. Monaco and Hungary as an answer. Low speeds, lots of slow corners. So we have a high angle of attack on the front wing and big barn doors at the back.