Fully undercut sidepods

[riff_raff]

It's a well understood fact regarding heat transfer, that the higher the deltaT across the heat exchanger, the greater the heat transfer rate. In order to minimize the size of the heat exchanger, and thus its drag losses, obviously you want as high a coolant temperature as possible. Since F1 rules require water as a coolant and a maximum coolant system pressure of 55 psig, working out heat exchanger size is fairly academic.

F1 engines achieve a BTE of about 30% and produce a maximum output of about 900 hp. Emperically, I would estimate about 750 hp, or 31,813 Btu/min, needs to be rejected through the engine cooling system.

Regards,
Terry

[fwa2500]

im liking this idea......you should sign on with an F1 team.......i think this actually has potential.......maybe have a deflector for the wheelsto keep the airflow clean? i have no idea how this fits in with the regulations (we should check).....anyway, keep up the nice work!

[manchild]

It's a well understood fact regarding heat transfer, that the higher the deltaT across the heat exchanger, the greater the heat transfer rate. In order to minimize the size of the heat exchanger, and thus its drag losses, obviously you want as high a coolant temperature as possible. Since F1 rules require water as a coolant and a maximum coolant system pressure of 55 psig, working out heat exchanger size is fairly academic.

F1 engines achieve a BTE of about 30% and produce a maximum output of about 900 hp. Emperically, I would estimate about 750 hp, or 31,813 Btu/min, needs to be rejected through the engine cooling system.

Regards,
Terry

Sorry but I didn't get this one - me wanting as high a coolant temperature as possible... ?

I haven't been suggesting any changes in cooling system except position of radiators and shape of sidepods. Can you please refrase what you wanted to say?

Thanks in advance

[manchild]

im liking this idea......you should sign on with an F1 team.......i think this actually has potential.......maybe have a deflector for the wheelsto keep the airflow clean? i have no idea how this fits in with the regulations (we should check).....anyway, keep up the nice work!

Thanks... you know regarding F1 teams, all I wanted was a possibility to send my ideas to at least one of them as soon as I think of something but unfortunately F1 teams deal only with solicited patents and therefore it is impossible to send them aero idea - a sketch because they are not accepting such emails afraid of compensation frauds. That is why I decided to post my ideas on F1 forums instead to keep them to my self.

Also, this fully undercut sidepod and the bottom of sidepod are just bare idea without any other aero elements or defined shape. I understand that perhaps some sort of short chimney or gills at the bottom of the sidepod would be better outlet than just radiator grill. I haven’t made any such drawings for that would be guessing definitive shape, size etc. and that is something that requires math and wind tunnel.

That is why I’m presenting only bare idea hoping that pros could get the essential meaning and figure out what shape, size and additional aero elements that should be added if they think that it might work.

[manchild]

Here is the modified concept of fully undercut sidepods according to suggestions I received on this forum. Main idea was to make changes having in mind downforce and rear end aerodynamics (hot air diffuser stuff someone was mentioning…).

I’ve added floor to sidepod and closed it sideways. Now cold air that reaches area below seedpod splits in two – upper stream now picks up hot air from the radiator and exits sidepod above. Lower stream flows below the sidpods floor and the cars floor/bottom.

[kilcoo316]

Here is the modified concept of fully undercut sidepods according to suggestions I received on this forum. Main idea was to make changes having in mind downforce and rear end aerodynamics (hot air diffuser stuff someone was mentioning…).

I’ve added floor to sidepod and closed it sideways. Now cold air that reaches area below seedpod splits in two – upper stream now picks up hot air from the radiator and exits sidepod above. Lower stream flows below the sidpods floor and the cars floor/bottom.

Why bother with the bottom (middle) duct? Slant the rad backwards and upwards (like \) and work that way??

[manchild]

Why bother with the bottom (middle) duct? Slant the rad backwards and upwards (like \) and work that way??

I agree that it could be done as you suggested but I was hoping to lower center of gravity and to partly exploit Venturi effect, which is why radiator is positioned as it is.

[kilcoo316]

I agree that it could be done as you suggested but I was hoping to lower center of gravity and to partly exploit Venturi effect, which is why radiator is positioned as it is.

It may lower the c.g (may - I dunno so cannot say for definite), but will probably increase drag.

[fwa2500]

just happened to think of somthing........because the side is open, you would have a loss of preasureon one side of the car through a turn, if the low preasure was on the inside of the turn,, it would help pull the car into the turn........but im just rambling.....lol



also......wing gates might be nessisary for stability....ill use the MiG-15 as an example......the wings were highly efficient at high speeds but a lower speeds, like for landing, they were not....wing gates were used to help maintain efficiency through the whole speed range of the plane.....(this same idea is why some airliners today have winglets)

here are a couple pics, look at the wings to see what im talking about:

[manchild]

ummm... regarding that first photo, first I thought - "why did he post a pic of F86 Sabre?" than I realized that it is a Mig-15 with US AIRFORCE marks!!!

Thanks for the comments on JPS livery...

[DaveKillens]

Those wing fences were designed to control the air. Because of the swept wings, it was discovered that if vortices or a stall occured on the wing, it could go down the span of the wing. The fence was designed to separate events on the wing, so that is an unfortunate stall occured, it would not travel down the complete wing, but would be controlled by the fence
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay ... s/TH20.htm

[manchild]

Those wing fences were designed to control the air. Because of the swept wings, it was discovered that if vortices or a stall occurred on the wing, it could go down the span of the wing. The fence was designed to separate events on the wing, so that is an unfortunate stall occurred, it would not travel down the complete wing, but would be controlled by the fence
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay ... s/TH20.htm

I remembered this from a movie about AV Roe Canada Ltd, "The Arrow" (1997) with Dan Aykroyd. There is a scene when they are discussing and solving this problem. They were also the ones who invented/applied the “coke bottle” aerodynamic design.



http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/factualarrow2.html