2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Vanja #66
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2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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This thread will be used to publish results of several batches of CFD simulations regarding 2022 generation Rear Wing designs (overall style, not identical to actual cars!), with isolated Rear Wings and endplates without DRS pylon. I want to include more people from this forum community and I'd like to discuss what to do for every following batch of simulations, both including the geometry of the basic model and the simulation conditions. :)

For the first batch of results I've compared a typical scoop, U and V shaped wings. V shape was used mostly by Ferrari in 2022 for their mid-low-level wing and is no longer present. All 3 simulations were exactly the same, 50m/s (180 kmh) at 0m altitude and half-model was simulated - meaning simulation of the flow at 0 degrees yaw.

All 3 geometries have the same foil at the symmetry plane and tips as well - and those two foils are also the same, but put at different angles. This is not quite according to the geometries used by teams (at the tips the foils are much less cambered and much thinner), but for the first run I wanted to introduce the least amount of variables. As such, you'd expect limited differences in geometry mean limited differences in results. This turned out to be the case, which is quite pleasing since this means we established a solid base for further simulations and explorations.

FRONT VIEW

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Here we see the basic shapes of 3 different wings. It's immediately clear that the tip foil is too thick, but it was a known choice. Frontal flap plots are practically identical, which leads to a simple conclusion - spanwise foil AoA has almost no influence on frontal flap pressure distribution. The biggest difference is the amount of trailing edge top surface visibility, this directly increases drag. Scoop and U wing are almost the same, while V wing has significantly smaller area visible.

REAR VIEW

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Due to small differences in AoA in centre section, there is a bit more separation on the flap trailing edge in the middle of the V wing, but as we can see from pressure plots it made little to no difference, so we go with the flow and take it as it is :mrgreen: One thing I did not manage to capture was tip vortex forming on the flap tip underside. This is what happens on actual cars, but looking at actual geometry of flap tips its clear this area is quite complex and highly optimised, so I wouldn't bother with that now.

ISO VIEW

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All 3 wings have fairly similar flow patterns on the top surface, as well as underside. This suggest that the spanwise shape is less important than foils and their angles, which tells us we can't make direct estimates over performance of different wing designs. We can have a rough idea based on overall frontal area comparison, but we must also note the AoA of the main plane because smaller angle means less drag even if the frontal area is almost the same as another wing.

Here are the downforce figures (wings only, endplates excluded) at 50m/s

Scoop: -L=1805 N, D=390 N, L/D=4.63
U: -L=1820 N, D=392 N, L/D=4.64
V: -L=1750 N, D=368 N, L/D=4.76

There's very little to chose from the way Scoop and U wings were modelled, while V wing is notably more efficient even with unoptimised tip foil geometry. For this reason, my next step will be to draw thinner tip foil and redo these basic simulations and then we can again compare these results.

Until then, a question - why did I exclude endplates from downforce figures? :)
Last edited by Vanja #66 on 04 Mar 2024, 23:24, edited 1 time in total.
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S D
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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I can't see the images. The links are broken.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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S D wrote:
04 Mar 2024, 22:25
I can't see the images. The links are broken.
Fixed, thanks :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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FDD
FDD
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Why did you exclude endplates from downforce figures?

Probably to focus on the wings only, otherwise will be quite complicated for us non aero experts and F1 fans only, to understand.
This is my guess and I do not have any other explanation, because I'm not an aero guy :D
If I am wrong, that is because I can not be right :lol:

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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FDD wrote:
05 Mar 2024, 11:43
Why did you exclude endplates from downforce figures?

Probably to focus on the wings only, otherwise will be quite complicated for us non aero experts and F1 fans only, to understand.
This is my guess and I do not have any other explanation, because I'm not an aero guy :D
If I am wrong, that is because I can not be right :lol:
Yes, it was to focus only on wings. The reason is the forces acting on endplates. on the outside there is ambient pressure, but on the inside there is lower pressure field caused by wing underside. Since endplates are tapering inside, this makes them generate lift on my model. :)

This is also one of the reasons teams are designing them to be very complex and have a lot of curvature. There is strong interaction between the wing underside and endplate inside.

Image

Concave curvature on the inside of McLaren endplates tells me some teams are trying to accelerate the air there as much as possible and boost the wing itself. This is not new, teams have been doing this for at least 12-15 years, so I guess even the lift penalty is acceptable because the end result is improved.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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FDD
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 10:02

on the outside there is ambient pressure, but on the inside there is lower pressure field caused by wing underside.

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/O ... 082523.jpg
Good point, this interaction

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SiLo
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Excellent work! Interesting to see how minimal the differences are between shapes. It appears it all comes down to total area of the main plane? Does the scoop cover less area than the U? It's very hard to see.
Felipe Baby!

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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SiLo wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 15:50
Excellent work! Interesting to see how minimal the differences are between shapes. It appears it all comes down to total area of the main plane? Does the scoop cover less area than the U? It's very hard to see.
Those Scoop and U models have roughly the same frontal area, but I'm working on new ones (improved and looking much more like the actual wings today) and I expect a fairly distinguishable change between each one.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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SiLo
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 18:51
SiLo wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 15:50
Excellent work! Interesting to see how minimal the differences are between shapes. It appears it all comes down to total area of the main plane? Does the scoop cover less area than the U? It's very hard to see.
Those Scoop and U models have roughly the same frontal area, but I'm working on new ones (improved and looking much more like the actual wings today) and I expect a fairly distinguishable change between each one.
Cool! Will that include the geometric differences in terms of thickness of the main plane? historically RB have had a very thin main plane and Mercedes with a very large leading edge.
Felipe Baby!

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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SiLo wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 13:53
Cool! Will that include the geometric differences in terms of thickness of the main plane? historically RB have had a very thin main plane and Mercedes with a very large leading edge.
On the RW models shown above, there's only 1 aerofoil of the main plane and it's placed at a lower angle at the tips. All 3 wings have the same foil. 3 new models, results are ready and I plan to post this evening, have the same central foil as existing 3 model, while the tip foil is a lot thinner - but still the same on all 3 wings. And again, all 3 models will have the same angles in the centre and at the tip, so we are truly comparing only the influence of the spanwise shape on L/D figures.

I'd like to keep this arrangement to see what kind of changes we can observe at different yaw angles, maybe different roll angles (yes, it can have a minor influence) and I plan on trying out also various forms of V notches on the flap to see their overall influence. I think it could be good to keep other aspects as simple as possible to do that.

Afterwards, we can play around and see what we can do with various aerofoils themselves, not only different angles. :mrgreen:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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SiLo
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Vanja #66 wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 14:28
SiLo wrote:
07 Mar 2024, 13:53
Cool! Will that include the geometric differences in terms of thickness of the main plane? historically RB have had a very thin main plane and Mercedes with a very large leading edge.
On the RW models shown above, there's only 1 aerofoil of the main plane and it's placed at a lower angle at the tips. All 3 wings have the same foil. 3 new models, results are ready and I plan to post this evening, have the same central foil as existing 3 model, while the tip foil is a lot thinner - but still the same on all 3 wings. And again, all 3 models will have the same angles in the centre and at the tip, so we are truly comparing only the influence of the spanwise shape on L/D figures.

I'd like to keep this arrangement to see what kind of changes we can observe at different yaw angles, maybe different roll angles (yes, it can have a minor influence) and I plan on trying out also various forms of V notches on the flap to see their overall influence. I think it could be good to keep other aspects as simple as possible to do that.

Afterwards, we can play around and see what we can do with various aerofoils themselves, not only different angles. :mrgreen:
Great, can't wait for the results!
Felipe Baby!

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variante
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Mar 2024, 10:02
FDD wrote:
05 Mar 2024, 11:43
Why did you exclude endplates from downforce figures?
Yes, it was to focus only on wings. The reason is the forces acting on endplates. on the outside there is ambient pressure, but on the inside there is lower pressure field caused by wing underside. Since endplates are tapering inside, this makes them generate lift on my model. :)
You should leave the endplates lift factored in.
Some wings may have greater downforce but also greater interaction with the endplates, giving zero net advantage.
Not a big deal when comparing such similar geometries, but still...

Also, every lesson taken from these CFDs should be "adjusted" for the upwash that would be generated by the diffuser and beam wing of a complete car model.

Tzk
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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I've always wondered about the absolute difference of downforce and drag on the current rear wing designs. On your simulation it's about 3%... Are teams really building several wings for such a small difference?! I'm aware that 3% is a huge gap in f1 and the total performance at the front differs below 0,5% in total.

Besides that, i'd love to see a simulation of a Merc style wing with a huge middle part as shown here:

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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variante wrote:
08 Mar 2024, 01:40
You should leave the endplates lift factored in.
Some wings may have greater downforce but also greater interaction with the endplates, giving zero net advantage.
Not a big deal when comparing such similar geometries, but still...

Also, every lesson taken from these CFDs should be "adjusted" for the upwash that would be generated by the diffuser and beam wing of a complete car model.
Agreed, but as I said the focus is on the shape of the main plane. Teams are doing a lot of things very differently, the main plane trailing edges and flap leading edges are curved inwards towards the tips to adjust to the overall curved flow, fixed flap tips where they join endplates are fairly complex, the endplates have lots of subtle changes in shape and thickness... All of those things improve the performance of the wing a little and joined together - a lot.

BW+diffuser are more driven by RW than the other way around. However, BW is certainly helpful in keeping the flap trailing edge flow attached by previously forcing the air up.

Tzk wrote:
08 Mar 2024, 07:46
I've always wondered about the absolute difference of downforce and drag on the current rear wing designs. On your simulation it's about 3%... Are teams really building several wings for such a small difference?! I'm aware that 3% is a huge gap in f1 and the total performance at the front differs below 0,5% in total.

Besides that, i'd love to see a simulation of a Merc style wing with a huge middle part as shown here:
No, differences are bigger than that of course, there were a lot of very "incorrect" details of my first models :mrgreen:

The upcoming Scoop design is more like Mercedes/McLaren wings now :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2022-2026-style Rear Wing CFD simulations

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Sorry to have delayed this post a bit, but we are here now. With the reduction in tip foil thickness, there are now clear differences between different designs - both visual and numerical:

Scoop: -L=1695 N, D=368 N, L/D=4.61
U: -L=1708 N, D=364 N, L/D=4.69
V: -L=1625 N, D=339 N, L/D=4.80

All wings lost downforce of course, but Scoop wing also lost a bit of efficiency, while U and V wings improved. V wing remains the most efficient design, while U design generates the most downforce - even though the Scoop wing has the biggest frontal area.

The reason behind Scoop wing poor performance is an abrupt transition between the central section and the transition inclined surface. Here the suction zones get a bit broken up and this weakens them. I suspect this effect is even more pronounced on Mercedes/McLaren mid-high-level wings.

Although we didn't catch the effect of the tip vortex on the flap tip, there's now a bigger local curvature which causes the suction zone to spread diagonally across the wing - from the central belly to the rear of the tips. I suspect this might not be too far from what's actually going on, but impossible to say.

Next up will be 5 and 10 deg yaw simulations and I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens there!

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An honest question, is anyone really surprised RB was the first to figure out U wing is the optimal shape for higher downforce levels? :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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