Christian Horner under Investigation

[izzy]

No, the reason for the screen shots was that they was demanded they be deleted.

So it would have been

Chat
Screenshot
Delete as requested

you can delete an email with the text file, you don't need screenshots to have something to delete.

You do if you are retaining evidence of harassment and then proving you have deleted the messages as requested

how would you prove you've deleted an image, as opposed to an email or a text file? And supposedly still having the WhatsApp chat history anyway.

A blackmailer can't prove it, they just get included in a crime by taking the payment, so they can't say anything.

[Watto]

No, the reason for the screen shots was that they was demanded they be deleted.

So it would have been

Chat
Screenshot
Delete as requested

you can delete an email with the text file, you don't need screenshots to have something to delete.

You do if you are retaining evidence of harassment and then proving you have deleted the messages as requested

Dont have WhatsApp but it looks like WA has an export feature where you can export to PDF or email of your choice ; this probably retains more data - screen names time dates etc over a screenshot that easier to manipulate

Export it via WA then delete

[Watto]

So on X they’re reporting that Horner paid 700K to the woman in question and Red Bull upped that to 1M! An innocent person wouldn’t pay probably! Which pretty much says that you can do whatever you like with a woman as long as you’ve got enough money as compensation…

This is ridiculous! F1 and the FIA are sleeping if this is true! This is way bigger than just Horner having an affair! This should get the whole team into sanctions and stuff even more than McLaren back in 2007…

This isn’t just a small matter! How can you cover up such a story at times like these where women are fighting for their rights in cases like this?? Unbelievable…

But we’ve got Ben at the top only caring about the fake image of this sport and getting the results he wants! What do you expect really…

I mean…Lewis wearing jewelry looked like a bigger problem for the sport to him!

This is what gets me, the people who pass the leaks of as nothing to see here, say that’s nothing, are suddenly getting upset at the leaker and even want prison sentences!
It seems abuse of a women or employee is nothing, but sharing the info is wrong!

if it’s true then it’s a pretty bad sign, points very heavily to wrong doing, but do we have any real evidence it happened.

One publication said she was sacked . Another said suspended

One says Ford are in the verge of quitting then another says they aren’t and have no intention of it,


I followed a story some years ago I think id quite similar to this a lot of leaks, trial by media employee being pressured to walk etc and it became very heavily distorted

If Horner did it I do hope it all comes out and he’s exposed, heck I think it’s the most likely option atm

But I’ve been there done that too often to know things often aren’t that simple.

[izzy]

Dont have WhatsApp but it looks like WA has an export feature where you can export to PDF or email of your choice ; this probably retains more data - screen names time dates etc over a screenshot that easier to manipulate

Export it via WA then delete

Yes nothing makes sense about the screenshots. To take a screenshot you have to be signed in to the phone, and then you're signed in to WhatsApp as well, probably. Then 100 of them is a lot of effort. The only thing that makes sense is some of them being faked.

And if they really are about an affair then Horner can't just produce his copy of the chat, and if Red Bull want him to continue as TP then they have to cover them up as well. But the only coercion is actually joking like 'no no stop it' on a message.

Her having something going with Jos as well is fairly likely it seems to me, this is why they've clashed, what Christian was being 'coercive' about, how the KC dismissed the complaint, everything as far as I can think.

[myurr]

Does leaking confidential information that was part of a sexual harassment case, comes under Whistle blowing?

You whistle blow to the authorities or regulator, not the public.

[fourmula1]

I’m just here for the orange merc hats.

Is it pure ego/power/money…I wonder what the different parties visions for the team are.

Horner wants a race team, Jos/Marko want a one man show?

[f1jcw]

Dont have WhatsApp but it looks like WA has an export feature where you can export to PDF or email of your choice ; this probably retains more data - screen names time dates etc over a screenshot that easier to manipulate

Export it via WA then delete

Yes nothing makes sense about the screenshots. To take a screenshot you have to be signed in to the phone, and then you're signed in to WhatsApp as well, probably. Then 100 of them is a lot of effort. The only thing that makes sense is some of them being faked.

And if they really are about an affair then Horner can't just produce his copy of the chat, and if Red Bull want him to continue as TP then they have to cover them up as well. But the only coercion is actually joking like 'no no stop it' on a message.

Her having something going with Jos as well is fairly likely it seems to me, this is why they've clashed, what Christian was being 'coercive' about, how the KC dismissed the complaint, everything as far as I can think.

Sorry that is nonsense. It takes seconds to screenshot, it is really no effort at all. To suddenly make the statement “the only thing that makes sense is some of them is faked” makes absolute no sense whatsoever, it be more effort to fake then to screenshot an actual conversation.

Saying No No No, is not joking. Please as said before “no” means “no”.
Please understand that. In this day and age such things should not have to be stated.

[f1jcw]

Does leaking confidential information that was part of a sexual harassment case, comes under Whistle blowing?

You whistle blow to the authorities or regulator, not the public.

She did that to head office HR, they’ve attempted to brush it under the table and offered a million pound payoff.

[Watto]

Does leaking confidential information that was part of a sexual harassment case, comes under Whistle blowing?

You whistle blow to the authorities or regulator, not the public.

She did that to head office HR, they’ve attempted to brush it under the table and offered a million pound payoff.

He referred to an authority/regulator not as I take it an internal HR; I take it he’s referring take it to a workplace regulator- what ever they are called in the UK. The regulator can deal with the company in your behalf an external body would send RB a letter we’ve had this accusation we’d like a response in xxx days they can negotiate on your behalf I believe and if no agreement can take the company to court

[f1jcw]

You whistle blow to the authorities or regulator, not the public.

She did that to head office HR, they’ve attempted to brush it under the table and offered a million pound payoff.

He referred to an authority/regulator not as I take it an internal HR; I take it he’s referring take it to a workplace regulator- what ever they are called in the UK. The regulator can deal with the company in your behalf an external body would send RB a letter we’ve had this accusation we’d like a response in xxx days they can negotiate on your behalf I believe and if no agreement can take the company to court

First step is usually a organisation called acas, these are the 1st step, they are a mediators, get the two parties talking before it goes go to court, I used them myself for a pretty low level claim.
I joined a company, it was a magazine called Horse Trader lol and required nearly 3 hours total driving a day. I started on a Monday, by Saturday I was FML and told them I wasn’t coming back, they withheld payment for the work I’d done, I went to Acas as the 1st step, they talk to me, talk to him, and in the end though the mediator I accepted taking just over half of what was expected.

I’m not sure they could be used in such a big harassment case, but could advise.

[PapayaFan481]

Someone leaked it without a question, I said over on autosport that there wasnt many people who could realistically be responsible for a leak: Link here

Red Bull are truly right to be, or looking to be suspending staff that they believe could be responsible whilst its investigated. (obviously Horner would be a bit silly to leak his own messages so probably why he's not suspended).

I think IF (BIG IF) it was Marko that leaked the messages, then there becomes a point where enough is enough. He's managed to stay by the skin of his teeth on previous cases. Maybe its a cover up from Jos and Max to put pressure on RB to have Marko stay by claiming that he's part of the team, and thus the media comments from Max are almost 'to his defence' in not wanting RB HQ to sack him.

I'm not even sure I wholly agree with Max in his media interview the other day about who built the team (where he excluded Christian from the comments). I'm sure Christian would have done equally as much, if not more than Marko in getting the team to the success they are at today. And even then it filters down to the staff you have working for you etc.

Max needs to be clever with his decisions, Marko is 80year old now and certainly no 'spring chicken' anymore and got to question how much longer he has being able to sustain workloads, travelling etc. Marko was certainly responsible for bringing Max into F1, and a very right decision that was at the time.

Certainly a tough call, i'm more than certain that Max can survive in F1 quite easily without the help of Marko being there in the paddock too. Even if Max reported back to Marko and Christian about the car, i'm sure Christian is more than capable of pulling any strings for ideas/concerns Max has about the car with the rest of the team. Infact, Max is probably better off sitting down with Newey and Wache than Christian or Marko about any development or concerns.

For one thing, Max isnt going to walk out of F1 in the next few months IF Marko is suspended or sacked, certainly not when he's by far the best driver on the grid, driving for one of the most slick teams on the grid in many many years when they are both at their peaks.

I certainly don't think Max would work alongside Toto well. Merc and their PR is just not in-line with how RB's and Max work. (hate to bring it up but look how much Russell changed when he was brought into Mercedes and how his interviews and character changed). That wouldn't work with Max in the slightest.

Hopefully Max has some sense and doesn't get dragged in this filth. If he didn't know the background then, he probably would know it now if Red Bull suspends Marko. In such a scenario, does Max want to stand with a criminal and sabotage his own career? I hope not. If he doesn't like this whole situation and wants to leave without standing with anyone particularly, it's entirely upto him. But leaving by showing solidarity for someone who went against his own organisation would be damning for his reputation.

So you agree, Max would stand with the whistleblower Marko, rather than the criminal Horner (IF the messages are real - if they're not why does Marko leak them and why does RBR pay 1 million to prevent a law suit - a law suit which would have shown what actually happened?)

[PapayaFan481]

Marko leaking would make some sense. It would likely explain why messages leaked but not the KC report if it found wrongdoing on Horners part but RB chose to ignore it or if it was a small report designed to clear Horner.

The Kings Counsel barrister would be well out on a limb if the messages were genuine, wouldn't they, to have just ignored them. Or Red Bull GMBH if they ignored a report that found there was coercive behaviour. 100 was it? Screenshots! When if they were genuine she could just click "Export" , once!

The whole point of the screenshots had to be to slip in some fake ones. So I'm thinking talking about 'leaking' is going down a bit of a misleading path.

Meanwhile someone briefed RTL, and who would that be? That's right, the faker, so I'm not trusting that either.

Once again, have you seen the report the KC produced?? For all we know it could have advised Red Bull that they need to fire Horner, or it could have said Horner was in the clear. We simply do not know and the KC is bound by law not to disclose the details of his investigation and report - even if a civil offence (which is what this would be, not a criminal offence) has occurred.

[PapayaFan481]

More on the above

You don't pay 1 million to avoid a lawsuit if you've nothing to hide. You let the facts speak for themselves in court.

I think Horner and RBR may have misjudged this one....

[mendis]

More on the above

You don't pay 1 million to avoid a lawsuit if you've nothing to hide. You let the facts speak for themselves in court.

I think Horner and RBR have misjudged this one....

There is so much contradiction in your previous post, denying KC and Red Bull decision, where you are asking if you the other poster has seen the report. Here, you are using a rumour as a fact to state RBR is wrong.

[chrisc90]

Nobody has confirmation that a payout was even given really do they.