2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

[dialtone]

TD39 wasn’t about floor flexibility but ride height and acceleration.

And Ferrari was fastest but with RedBull being fairly overweight.

Ferrari was also less reliable, thanks in large part still to after effects of the 2020 decisions they pushed engine development quite far to bridge the gap.

In general, there really is no reason to stand up there and call everyone else bad, just shows arrogance for no reason.

How good you are is always relative to who is the best. Ferrari, Merc, McLaren, they are not bad and certainly not stupid, but at the same time they have not demonstrated that they are good enough to win currently. Shifting the blame onto the rules and acting offended at people saying they haven't done a good enough job is deflection.

Like RBR did every year they threatened to leave f1 if FIA didn’t limit Mercedes somehow.

Come down your high step, it’s not needed here.

[Cs98]

TD39 wasn’t about floor flexibility but ride height and acceleration.

And Ferrari was fastest but with RedBull being fairly overweight.

Ferrari was also less reliable, thanks in large part still to after effects of the 2020 decisions they pushed engine development quite far to bridge the gap.

In general, there really is no reason to stand up there and call everyone else bad, just shows arrogance for no reason.

How good you are is always relative to who is the best. Ferrari, Merc, McLaren, they are not bad and certainly not stupid, but at the same time they have not demonstrated that they are good enough to win currently. Shifting the blame onto the rules and acting offended at people saying they haven't done a good enough job is deflection.

Like RBR did every year they threatened to leave f1 if FIA didn’t limit Mercedes somehow.

Come down your high step, it’s not needed here.

I can sense this is a sensitive topic for you, but deflecting does not change the facts. The team that has done the best job is winning, just as it was when Merc was winning. Do you disagree with that? Answer that question please, and do it without reverting to your old "everyone else is not bad and stupid" straw man.

Btw, RB complaining then didn't change the fact that their shortcomings came from their own lack of infrastructure, not being a proper engine factory team. They had to suffer with that for 5 years until they struck the Honda deal. They themselves solved their own main weakness, not the rules.

[dialtone]

How good you are is always relative to who is the best. Ferrari, Merc, McLaren, they are not bad and certainly not stupid, but at the same time they have not demonstrated that they are good enough to win currently. Shifting the blame onto the rules and acting offended at people saying they haven't done a good enough job is deflection.

Like RBR did every year they threatened to leave f1 if FIA didn’t limit Mercedes somehow.

Come down your high step, it’s not needed here.

I can sense this is a sensitive topic for you, but deflecting does not change the facts. The team that has done the best job is winning, just as it was when Merc was winning. Do you disagree with that? Answer that question please, and do it without reverting to your old "everyone else is not bad and stupid" straw man.

Btw, RB complaining then didn't change the fact that their shortcomings came from their own lack of infrastructure, not being a proper engine factory team. They had to suffer with that for 5 years until they struck the Honda deal. They themselves solved their own main weakness, not the rules.

It is and isn’t sensitive. It’s just a sport, I don’t really care.

Of course the best team did the best job, that’s a strawman argument, as if anyone ever disputed that.

But it’s definitely fastidious to have this topic reduced to “we’re the good ones”, ignoring everything that happened around it or the limitations in the rules.

Did RBR cheat on budget? Yes.
Did Ferrari get hit by TD39 mid season? Yes.
Was rebuilding engine a big deal for Ferrari? Yes

Was RBR crying about 2014-2018 important in changing rules for 2019+ in Mercedes disadvantage? Of course it was.

Will any RBR fan ever admit that besides them doing a good job they also benefited from a lot of whining and gray area cheating where they really didn’t get punished? Never.

[AMG.Tzan]

Wow the Motorsport world seems to be healing itself at last!

-Marc Marquez is back fighting at the front (instead of irrelevant riders like Bezzecchi, Espargaro etc)
-Porsche is winning in WEC-IMSA (instead of a pink Acura or some ridiculous Japanese guys called Toyota who somehow managed to lose the 2016 Le Mans 24hrs on the last lap)
-Newgarden is winning in Indycar (instead of some irrelevant Spanish guy called Palou)
-WSBK seems to be having competition at last

So it’s only F1 left to heal itself where some boring Dutch guy in a drinks company car is doing practice sessions every Sunday

Alright guys I’m just joking obviously! I just had to moan somewhere…

[chrisc90]

Come on guys, if we keep drawing back to 2021 without very good reference we will end up with the thread locked again and we wont have chance to vent our rants and raves.

[arkbird]

This current era is not the most interesting to put it lightly but what would really tick me off is if we never find out what makes the Redbull so fast. Several years after these regulations end I really hope someone spills the beans because it's absolutely absurd no other teams can't figure it out despite all the Redbull brain drain.

[JordanMugen]

-2021 floor rule changes made just to hit Mercedes (you would have been nowhere near Mercedes without them)
-2022+ suspension rules banning hydraulic suspension systems (for no reason)

1. Most people thought the floor cuts would disadvantage high rake cars and favour low rake cars.
2. The hydraulic systems were too complex for FIA to police the legality.

My argument is that there’s constant meddling so just going with “we’re good everyone else just needs to pick themselves up” is an asinine take.

Absolutely. If something comes to light on the Red Bull, then the FIA will target it. That's not a question!

The Aston Martin flexible front wing mount of 2023 was already targeted, the Ferrari floor of 2022 was already targeted, the Red Bull flexible rear wing of 2021 & semi-automated pitstops of 2021 were targeted.

If or when something comes to light as being a grey area on the current Red Bull, of course the FIA will target it. As of yet, nothing has come to light, right?

The only reason the FIA hasn't targeted the current Red Bull with technical directives is they (or indeed fans) aren't aware of grey areas on it (yet).

But we'll never know. Ferrari isn't allowed gray areas unlike other teams.

The idea the FIA are biased against Ferrari is silly!

On the one hand they used to be called Ferrari International Assistance, on the other hand they did nerf Ferrari in 2005 with the tyre change ban (perhaps not knowing Bridgestone tyres would especially poor at that).

But the FIA did the same to Williams in 1994, banning their excellent active suspension. Or the same to Mercedes in 2001, banning their beryllium piston skirts, making Mercedes engines very unreliable for several seasons playing right into the hands of Schumacher-era Ferrari against McLaren-Mercedes. Or the same to Renault in 2007, banning their mass-damper.

Not to mention the infamous Lotus twin-chassis case, were FISA biased against Lotus then, or against Brabham's fan car?

Why attribute to malice what can be attributed to typical FIA inconsistencies and incompetence?

[Watto]

The FIA has alway tried to close loopholes don’t think you can accuse them of targeting any one team to the above add things like multiple changes to blown diffusers when teams kept outsmarting he FIA, the flexi wings of the early 2010 .

The Renault mass damper in 2006 etc

[TeamKoolGreen]

Like RBR did every year they threatened to leave f1 if FIA didn’t limit Mercedes som
-2022+ suspension rules banning hydraulic suspension systems (for no reason) just because Mercedes always had an advanced system which made them the only “no rake” car bleaching everyone…and probably would have made the W13 work as intended…

Yes. I agree that Mercedes could have continued to buy titles through 2022 and onward if the suspension regs weren't changed. They were probably spending 100+ million a year on finding the scientifically perfect damper for each track.

[Cs98]

Like RBR did every year they threatened to leave f1 if FIA didn’t limit Mercedes somehow.

Come down your high step, it’s not needed here.

I can sense this is a sensitive topic for you, but deflecting does not change the facts. The team that has done the best job is winning, just as it was when Merc was winning. Do you disagree with that? Answer that question please, and do it without reverting to your old "everyone else is not bad and stupid" straw man.

Btw, RB complaining then didn't change the fact that their shortcomings came from their own lack of infrastructure, not being a proper engine factory team. They had to suffer with that for 5 years until they struck the Honda deal. They themselves solved their own main weakness, not the rules.

It is and isn’t sensitive. It’s just a sport, I don’t really care.

Of course the best team did the best job, that’s a strawman argument, as if anyone ever disputed that.

But it’s definitely fastidious to have this topic reduced to “we’re the good ones”, ignoring everything that happened around it or the limitations in the rules.

Did RBR cheat on budget? Yes.
Did Ferrari get hit by TD39 mid season? Yes.
Was rebuilding engine a big deal for Ferrari? Yes

Was RBR crying about 2014-2018 important in changing rules for 2019+ in Mercedes disadvantage? Of course it was.

Will any RBR fan ever admit that besides them doing a good job they also benefited from a lot of whining and gray area cheating where they really didn’t get punished? Never.

Okay, not sensitive but as soon as it is brought up you start attacking people for "being on a high step". I guess this is the thread for that though.

There's nothing fastidious about recognizing RB has done the best job, better than other teams like Ferrari. Not recognizing that in favour of constantly talking about the rules strikes me as deflection and denial. "We're the good ones", yes buddy, that's how you dominate, by being the best.

Will any RBR fan ever admit that besides them doing a good job they also benefited from a lot of whining and gray area cheating where they really didn’t get punished? Never.

Will you as a Ferrari fan acknowledge the same? I mean, how much ill-gotten performance did Ferrari gain from that illegal engine? Two years of inflated results? And let's not even start on the special privileges they have gotten.

I guess the main point is this, you wanna tell the story of rule changes after the introduction of the V6-TH without recognizing that that it took RB 7 years of struggling and major internal changes to become competitive. Joining with Honda had more to do with their rise to the top than any rule change. Likewise it will now require other teams to become better to bridge this gap to RB.

[Vanja #66]

People complain the gap is big and it’s hard to catch up because rules make it hard. Just like token system for engines had frozen Mercedes advantage for years in 2014.

Yup, budget allowance should be at least an extra USD 0.5m for every WCC position compared to the one above (for the following year), it's quite obvious budget is severely limiting development of those trying to catch up and thus rewarding the team with post-TD39 inherit advantage. Imagine McLaren having 2m more last year, they would have made a bigger jump over the season and it would have happened before the Austrian race.

At least from 2026 there won't be part-time employee allowance for people working on F1 projects. Either someone is working on F1 project or isn't.

[Mansell89]

Ferrari was hit by TD39, didn’t develop themselves into anything.

Regardless, they had the fastest car to start with. So the claim that Ferrari were disadvantaged going into these new regulations is obviously demonstrably untrue.

I don't mind Ferrari using a flexible floor, though perhaps it was unwise to be overly reliant on something that was subject to FIA's discretion.

Despite people wanting Red Bull to be slowed, there is nothing (that we know of) that the FIA could target with technical directives on it -- otherwise the FIA would, of course, do so!

This is unwatchable!

Bahrain was dull but I thought the Saudi Arabian race was quite entertaining. Piastri trying to overtake Hamilton (unsuccessfully) was tense as was Magnussen backing the pack up as those behind squabbled.

Bahrain - 5/10
Saudi Arabia - 7/10

IMO.

Well, il be kind and say that at best, this is an uncomfortable watch.

Care to elaborate?

My word does the spectacle need some successful upgrades from the chasing pack.

It’s like two different formulas- even Perez can cruise to 2nd.

The others should build a better car then, seems rather straightforward?

I thought the fact I said we needed teams to deliver successful upgrades, made it fairly obvious that others should build a better car? It’s absolutely down to the others to work out Neweys innovation.

Uncomfortable to watch is just some of my own frustrations with the sport. Firstly the lack of racing at the front, but far more important the fact we still press a DRS button to overtake. It just isn’t racing, but the powers that be make the decisions so I guess we’ll have to keep watching people breezing past with 30kph differences and pretend we’re entertained.

[peewon]

I think there should be compounding reduction in testing time for repeat winners. So since Red Bull are repeat winners last year, their testing time should have been even less than 70% this year.

I think cost cap is a good step in the right direction but seems to making the grid static.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Liberty is going to sell F1. They thought they could fix this but they can't. They will probably try something else and then when that fails, they will sell.

And 2026 is going to be even worse. It will be a repeat of 2014. Some team is going to have 70 more horsepower than everyone else.

[f1isgood]

This current era is not the most interesting to put it lightly but what would really tick me off is if we never find out what makes the Redbull so fast. Several years after these regulations end I really hope someone spills the beans because it's absolutely absurd no other teams can't figure it out despite all the Redbull brain drain.

It isn't really all that fast. They don't have a massive advantage like previous era that someone could attribute to some specific component in the car. They have a 3 to 5 tenth development advantage in race trim because others decided it go back in 2023. If even one team had understood their cars well after 2022 apart from Red Bull, this era would have easily been far more competitive. Other teams being not as good exaggerates the gap. In terms of pure performance Red Bull are even closer to others. But a 3 tenth advantage in race trim over a 50 lap race is 15 seconds. That is quite a lot to catch up on.

Also year on year development is very minimal for these cars. Teams haven't gained "seconds" in lap time. Even RB has only gained 1.5s with 2 full in-season + 2 full winter developments modulo some restrictions. That doesn't obviously help move the needle easily either.