2024 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, March 07 - 09

[organic]

Did anybody see what caused the RH outer floor strake to break and bend backwards in the last few laps? I’ve not seen or heard anything on it at all (neither during the race from the commentators, nor in post race pods, reports or here).

Which car ?

Hamilton. My guess is T1-T2 curb

[venkyhere]

Did anybody see what caused the RH outer floor strake to break and bend backwards in the last few laps? I’ve not seen or heard anything on it at all (neither during the race from the commentators, nor in post race pods, reports or here).

Which car ?

Hamilton. My guess is T1-T2 curb

In one of the N unsuccessful attempts by Piastri, there was one where they were both side by side, Hamilton pushed his elbows out from the outside of T2, after being inside for T1, resulting in a touch. Don't recall which lap..

[saviour stivala]

Sergio Perez ''Unsafe release'' It was not an ''Unsafe release'' as the team did not 'Release their driver, the team would have released their driver only if the pit-stop box red light was switched off. In this case, the driver took-off with the pit-box red light still on. Nores jump-start. That little 'jump-forward and sudden brake/stop without triggering the start sensor, was more of a hinderance to the driver race start reaction because his actual off-the-line was his second try.

[Stu]

Which car ?

Hamilton. My guess is T1-T2 curb

In one of the N unsuccessful attempts by Piastri, there was one where they were both side by side, Hamilton pushed his elbows out from the outside of T2, after being inside for T1, resulting in a touch. Don't recall which lap..

Yes, sorry, totally forgot to reference LH in the OP.
I find it a little odd if it was during the fight with Piastri, as LH pitted after that & the pit crew would have removed a piece of loose bodywork at that point to avoid the potential of getting the ‘meatball’ flag later on, surely?

[Matt2725]

Sergio Perez ''Unsafe release'' It was not an ''Unsafe release'' as the team did not 'Release their driver, the team would have released their driver only if the pit-stop box red light was switched off. In this case, the driver took-off with the pit-box red light still on. Nores jump-start. That little 'jump-forward and sudden brake/stop without triggering the start sensor, was more of a hinderance to the driver race start reaction because his actual off-the-line was his second try.

Sky mentioned post race that the sensor in Norris's grid box wasn't working properly. And that any penalty would have been successfully appealed due to the regulatory requirement of triggering the sensor.
That being said, reading the regulation in question (48.1), I don't see where this relies on a sensor in all instances...

48.1 Any of the penalties under Articles 54.3a), 54.3b), or 54.3c) will be imposed on any driver
who is judged to have:
a) Moved before the start signal is given, such judgement being made by an FIA
approved and supplied transponder fitted to each car, or;
b) Positioned his car on the starting grid in such a way that the transponder is unable
to detect the moment at which the car first moved from its grid position after the
start signal is given, or;
c) the contact patch of the front tyres in front of its grid position before the start signal
is given.

I guess it depends on whether you could ascertain the contact patch of the front tyres were in front in front of the white line when the 5 red lights were extinguished. Although from what Sky said, it sounds like they were wholly relying on 48.1a, without taking into account where his car actually was when the start signal was given as per 48.1c.

[Mogster]

F1 needs 3 more teams. Then guys like Bearman would have more chance of a seat at least.

The full 26 cars would be lovely!

But I don't think there is an appetite for it, given FOM money has typically exclusively been paid to the top 10 teams only causing teams beyond that to go bankrupt.

To undo that commercial arrangement (which incumbents are comfortable with) *now* would be very difficult -- be it to remove WCC and historic monies and pay every team the same, or to pay equal shares to all pay 13 teams, either seems almost intractable for a future Concorde agreement.

Meh, I don't see it. Guys like Bearman, Antonelli, Piastri, Lando, George, Charles, Max... these real talents will always find a way onto the grid. Six more seats would serve to help the second tier of young talent, not the truly elite tier. That wouldn't be bad, but I prefer the way it is now where the best of the best make it to F1 and where we have begun to phase out pay drivers. You open it up to 26 drivers, you dilute the teams earnings, the pay driver phenomenon would come back in force as you can always find a second tier talent with backing.

The SL points system already does a decent job of keeping guys like Roy Nissany and Ralph Boschung out of F1.

From the top tier in F2 I don’t think you can truly say who will make it in F1 unless they are given a go. There wasn’t even room for Piastri in 2022 when he was back to back 2020 F3, 2021 F2 champion, which is quite damning. There were no new drivers for 2024, the roster is almost like a closed shop it’s just dull. The teams roster is just as stale.

Just watched Indycar St Pete, 27 cars on a 1.8m circuit, lots of action, no issues. I see no reason (other than the teams wanting the biggest piece of the pie possible) why F1 couldn’t accommodate even 30 cars.

[Juzh]

some qualifying laps

P01 verstappen 1.27.472
https://streamable.com/13hwxs


P02 leclerc 1.27.791
https://streamable.com/ink6bl


P05 piastri 1.28.089
https://streamable.com/nvbekz

[Cs98]

The full 26 cars would be lovely!

But I don't think there is an appetite for it, given FOM money has typically exclusively been paid to the top 10 teams only causing teams beyond that to go bankrupt.

To undo that commercial arrangement (which incumbents are comfortable with) *now* would be very difficult -- be it to remove WCC and historic monies and pay every team the same, or to pay equal shares to all pay 13 teams, either seems almost intractable for a future Concorde agreement.

Meh, I don't see it. Guys like Bearman, Antonelli, Piastri, Lando, George, Charles, Max... these real talents will always find a way onto the grid. Six more seats would serve to help the second tier of young talent, not the truly elite tier. That wouldn't be bad, but I prefer the way it is now where the best of the best make it to F1 and where we have begun to phase out pay drivers. You open it up to 26 drivers, you dilute the teams earnings, the pay driver phenomenon would come back in force as you can always find a second tier talent with backing.

The SL points system already does a decent job of keeping guys like Roy Nissany and Ralph Boschung out of F1.

From the top tier in F2 I don’t think you can truly say who will make it in F1 unless they are given a go. There wasn’t even room for Piastri in 2022 when he was back to back 2020 F3, 2021 F2 champion, which is quite damning. There were no new drivers for 2024, the roster is almost like a closed shop it’s just dull. The teams roster is just as stale.

Just watched Indycar St Pete, 27 cars on a 1.8m circuit, lots of action, no issues. I see no reason (other than the teams wanting the biggest piece of the pie possible) why F1 couldn’t accommodate even 30 cars.

No one is talking about Nissany and Boschung, I am talking about that second tier of driver below the elite F1 prospects. Personally I don't need to see each and every one of them get a chance in F1, as long as the truly elite prospects get their chance that's fine by me. And there will always be a few of the second tier who make it anyways (Tsunoda, Zhou, Schumacher, Albon, Gasly, Ocon) etc.

I see no reason why you would want to accommodate 30 cars. It would do nothing for the racing except crowd the bottom reaches of the sport with bad teams and second rate drivers. Maybe that works in a spec series like IndyCar. But in F1 what we need is quality, not quantity. Good teams with quality drivers, well funded teams, teams able to fight at the front. You rarely hear people complaining about the lack of battles in the midfield or at the back, because quite frankly no one cares. What determines a good race, a good season, is what is going on at the front.

[DChemTech]

Meh, I don't see it. Guys like Bearman, Antonelli, Piastri, Lando, George, Charles, Max... these real talents will always find a way onto the grid. Six more seats would serve to help the second tier of young talent, not the truly elite tier. That wouldn't be bad, but I prefer the way it is now where the best of the best make it to F1 and where we have begun to phase out pay drivers. You open it up to 26 drivers, you dilute the teams earnings, the pay driver phenomenon would come back in force as you can always find a second tier talent with backing.

The SL points system already does a decent job of keeping guys like Roy Nissany and Ralph Boschung out of F1.

From the top tier in F2 I don’t think you can truly say who will make it in F1 unless they are given a go. There wasn’t even room for Piastri in 2022 when he was back to back 2020 F3, 2021 F2 champion, which is quite damning. There were no new drivers for 2024, the roster is almost like a closed shop it’s just dull. The teams roster is just as stale.

Just watched Indycar St Pete, 27 cars on a 1.8m circuit, lots of action, no issues. I see no reason (other than the teams wanting the biggest piece of the pie possible) why F1 couldn’t accommodate even 30 cars.

No one is talking about Nissany and Boschung, I am talking about that second tier of driver below the elite F1 prospects. Personally I don't need to see each and every one of them get a chance in F1, as long as the truly elite prospects get their chance that's fine by me. And there will always be a few of the second tier who make it anyways (Tsunoda, Zhou, Schumacher, Albon, Gasly, Ocon) etc.

I see no reason why you would want to accommodate 30 cars. It would do nothing for the racing except crowd the bottom reaches of the sport with bad teams and second rate drivers. Maybe that works in a spec series like IndyCar. But in F1 what we need is quality, not quantity. Good teams with quality drivers, well funded teams, teams able to fight at the front. You rarely hear people complaining about the lack of battles in the midfield or at the back, because quite frankly no one cares. What determines a good race, a good season, is what is going on at the front.

I have to disagree. There is more room on the grid, and it does add excitement even if they are not top tier teams. It allows more drivers to prove themselves, it allows for more action on the track that could also have an effect on front runners (they do share the track after all; if we don't want that we could just as well set up a time trial competition).
Besides, with the current state of technology and the budget cap, I'm not so afraid of 2-laps-down backmarkers as there used to be. It's no longer a pay-to-win formula where 6 cars at best battle for the wins, while the rest is battling for scrap pretty much proportional to their spending level; the spending delta between a team at the cap and the poorer privateers is not that big. Of course, a new team will take time to settle in and not be competitive out of the box, but that in itself is not an argument against allowing them (even though they used such bollocks against Andretti). IMO, there should be (at least) 24 cars participating; it doesn't need to be 30+, but it should be a few more than currently the case. And let's also not forget - a few more cars works as a buffer in case one or some teams leave, too.

[venkyhere]

But in F1 what we need is quality, not quantity. Good teams with quality drivers, well funded teams, teams able to fight at the front. You rarely hear people complaining about the lack of battles in the midfield or at the back, because quite frankly no one cares. What determines a good race, a good season, is what is going on at the front.

Yes, "quality" is how the likes of Latifi, Mazepin, Stroll, Zhou etc found their way in. It's a mix of meritocracy and money-power, an F1 seat.

[saviour stivala]

Sergio Perez ''Unsafe release'' It was not an ''Unsafe release'' as the team did not 'Release their driver, the team would have released their driver only if the pit-stop box red light was switched off. In this case, the driver took-off with the pit-box red light still on. Nores jump-start. That little 'jump-forward and sudden brake/stop without triggering the start sensor, was more of a hinderance to the driver race start reaction because his actual off-the-line was his second try.

Sky mentioned post race that the sensor in Norris's grid box wasn't working properly. And that any penalty would have been successfully appealed due to the regulatory requirement of triggering the sensor.
That being said, reading the regulation in question (48.1), I don't see where this relies on a sensor in all instances...

48.1 Any of the penalties under Articles 54.3a), 54.3b), or 54.3c) will be imposed on any driver
who is judged to have:
a) Moved before the start signal is given, such judgement being made by an FIA
approved and supplied transponder fitted to each car, or;
b) Positioned his car on the starting grid in such a way that the transponder is unable
to detect the moment at which the car first moved from its grid position after the
start signal is given, or;
c) the contact patch of the front tyres in front of its grid position before the start signal
is given.

I guess it depends on whether you could ascertain the contact patch of the front tyres were in front in front of the white line when the 5 red lights were extinguished. Although from what Sky said, it sounds like they were wholly relying on 48.1a, without taking into account where his car actually was when the start signal was given as per 48.1c.

A jump start can only be triggered by the transponder on the car crossing the sensor on ground, the starting grid box and not by car moving forward. Dispite Norris brief forward jolt before the lights went off, the FIA supplied transponder on his car did not trigger a jump-start because the detection system on the ground in front of his car (ground embeded srnsor) was not crossed, which means his front tyres patch whele the car jolted briefly forward, did not hit the white lines in front.

[organic]

F1-ready talents don't come along every year. A year when there are no rookies on the grid means we missed out on a Mazepin, not a Leclerc/Norris etc

[Cs98]

But in F1 what we need is quality, not quantity. Good teams with quality drivers, well funded teams, teams able to fight at the front. You rarely hear people complaining about the lack of battles in the midfield or at the back, because quite frankly no one cares. What determines a good race, a good season, is what is going on at the front.

Yes, "quality" is how the likes of Latifi, Mazepin, Stroll, Zhou etc found their way in. It's a mix of meritocracy and money-power, an F1 seat.

Over the years, as teams have become more financially stable, that balance has shifted more and more towards meritocracy. I remember listening to some podcast with Gary Anderson talking about how many drivers Jordan would go through in a season. One year they had like 5 different drivers, and it was all based on who came in with the most funding. Nowadays we only have a few pay drivers and they are actually okay when you look at their junior record and performance in F1.

[basti313]

I am wondering why there is no media explosion on the Magtrain?

He stayed in front by leaving the track got the useless time penalty and then took a quarter of the field for a harbor cruise
I mean....people here loved it when Russel did it....but now they point is there where it clearly blew off. I never thought and even more now do not think they can keep this stupid rule for the 5sec pen like this.

[dialtone]

I am wondering why there is no media explosion on the Magtrain?

He stayed in front by leaving the track got the useless time penalty and then took a quarter of the field for a harbor cruise
I mean....people here loved it when Russel did it....but now they point is there where it clearly blew off. I never thought and even more now do not think they can keep this stupid rule for the 5sec pen like this.

There is a long history of these situations that go under penalized, even just looking at this very same track a couple of years ago when Checo didn't give up a place to Sainz upon SC restart allowing Max to attack Charles undisturbed, an absolute clownshow by the Stewards to not force the position back before restart.

I like how KMag drove after that, but he shouldn't have been in that position.