2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[chrisc90]

Back today

I imagine tomorrow will be well ahead of the others on race pace.

I'm still a bit skeptical for the race. Ver is definitely not as happy with the car as he was here last year. He never said it was "on rails" or a "Rocketship". He wasn't all that impressed by his final lap either. Neither driver was all that impressed in FP3. I think the upgrades may need some fine tuning.

I guess depends on how the tyres last tomorrow.

[Wouter]

From a Dutch News site, translated:

Max Verstappen was not completely satisfied on Saturday with his qualifying lap that ultimately resulted in pole position for the Japanese Grand Prix. His fastest attempt could have been better and he is also concerned about Ferrari's race pace.

"I lost time from turn thirteen, it is really very sensitive here with the tires. If you load them too much, you lose the grip at the front. That happened in my last attempt," Verstappen looked back on the round at Suzuka.

The Dutchman had less than a tenth of a second to teammate Sergio Pérez at the finish. It was enough, but not by Verstappen's own standards. "You always want better, but unfortunately that is not always possible. It was not ideal."

Verstappen secured his fourth pole position of 2024 on the Japanese circuit, one of his favorite tracks. "It continues to be fun to drive here with an empty tank and the good balance. The cars are getting better and better, so it's getting better every time." more fun again this year. Especially the high-speed bends are cool."

The reigning world champion is enjoying Suzuka, but there are also concerns. Normally the second free practice is used for race simulations, but that fell through on Friday. That is why the teams used the third free practice on Saturday morning for the so-called long runs. Things did not go well for Verstappen. The Dutchman did not find the right balance and also had more tire wear than he is used to.

"I wasn't happy with that yet. Our pace is not as I would like it to be," was his assessment. The lap times showed that the Ferrari drivers were able to drive at a higher pace on the medium tires. "They seem very comfortable. Perhaps that is why they are not so fast over one lap, because their long runs looked very good."
Red Bull made some adjustments after the third free practice

Verstappen was referring to the fourth qualifying time of Carlos Sainz, the winner of the previous race in Australia. Charles Leclerc was even slower. He did not get further than the eighth lap time. Ferrari seems to have tuned the car mainly for the race. Suzuka is considered a tire eater, so that could be a wise decision.

"Of course I can't look into their pit box, but it is clear that they drove competitive long run times. Tomorrow we will see whether they are really competitive. McLaren also looked solid."

Red Bull itself made some adjustments to the cars after the third free practice. "Hopefully things will get better. It's not that it's bad, but I felt more comfortable in other races this year and also last year. I just wasn't happy. If we have less, the rest will of course also seem faster ."

[Wouter]

From Max his own website:

Max Verstappen takes pole for Japanese Grand Prix: 'A very good day'

After the session, Max says: “It was quite close at the end. This track is very sensitive for the tyres with the tarmac being very aggressive, and when you really want to go to the limit it doesn’t always work out. The first part of the lap was good, but then I lost grip at the front, and then you cannot really attack anymore. But the most important thing is to be on pole. Of course you want every lap to be perfect, but around a track like this that is not always the case. Overall it’s a very good day, we have a good starting position for tomorrow, and tomorrow is what counts.”

Teammate Perez came close to Verstappen’s time and will start from P2. A good result according to Verstappen: “It’s great as a team to be P1 and P2, and hopefully we can keep that going for tomorrow. We looked strong over one lap, but we have to see what it will mean in the race. I wasn’t really satisfied with the race pace of the car. The balance isn’t great yet and we had a little too much tyre wear, so we still have to try to fine-tune a few things.”

[AR3-GP]

quite interesting looking back at both of Verstappens 2 years of pole laps.

Very interesting. The RB20 is a very different car to the RB19. They are slower in the snake and the main straight, but much faster in the second half of the track.

[AR3-GP]

Sainz thinks Red Bull was running more fuel in the race sims from FP3:

Sainz: “in the long run RedBull uses 100kg, we know, we go lighter. Tomorrow we have to think about Norris"

That's from GiulyDuchessa twitter.

Verstappen also said that while he was not happy with his FP3 long run, they made changes to the car after FP3 to hopefully improve it:

"From our side, I have some ideas of what we have to look into to make tomorrow better and that's what we already changed [on car set-up] after FP3."

"Hopefully that will be better for tomorrow. Our race pace is still not too bad, but it's not how I have been feeling in some of the races this year and last year. As comfortable, let's say like that."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... ontent=www

[organic]

Helmut Marko: "Our upgrades have worked very, very well."

[AR3-GP]

Also, generally speaking, RB don't have a degradation issue that is inherent to the car. The problem in FP3 was that the car had a lot of understeer so they were damaging the front tires which caused the performance loss. If they have fixed the balance of the car on high fuel, they won't destroy the front tires like in FP3. It's a subtle but significant point.

[venkyhere]

Also, generally speaking, RB don't have a degradation issue that is inherent to the car. The problem in FP3 was that the car had a lot of understeer so they were damaging the front tires which caused the performance loss. If they have fixed the balance of the car on high fuel, they won't destroy the front tires like in FP3. It's a subtle but significant point.

That "if" is a big IF.
Because they have only 1 hard tyre, whilst McLaren have 2.
Hope the post FP3 "blind fix" works.

[napoleon1981]

https://i.ibb.co/VgfkCMh/Screenshot-202 ... 105002.png

quite interesting looking back at both of Verstappens 2 years of pole laps.

Very interesting. The RB20 is a very different car to the RB19. They are slower in the snake and the main straight, but much faster in the second half of the track.

My understanding is that the wind direction was completely opposite.

In 2023, there was a tail wind on the straight (higher top speed), and an advantageous headwind through the S-es in S1. This year there was a headwind on the straight.

[tmoneyr007]

https://i.ibb.co/VgfkCMh/Screenshot-202 ... 105002.png

quite interesting looking back at both of Verstappens 2 years of pole laps.

Very interesting. The RB20 is a very different car to the RB19. They are slower in the snake and the main straight, but much faster in the second half of the track.

My understanding is that the wind direction was completely opposite.

In 2023, there was a tail wind on the straight (higher top speed), and an advantageous headwind through the S-es in S1. This year there was a headwind on the straight.

I was going to say that graph showed either Honda PU it’s not as strong (or they’ve turned it down), the car is not as slippery (higher drag) or they’re intentionally running more wing (higher drag) to see those deltas in acceleration and high speed performance vs 2023.

Also going to assume Max is managing front end understeer that he’s managing by coming off throttle more vs 2023 to not “push” the front end more, causing tire deg and slowing the car to rotate more.

Front End grip looks to be lacking in balance compared to last year, the 2024 rear DF must be much improved. Probably why Perez is also managing to keep it close. We know Max like a sharp front end, the RB20 currently doesn’t have that.

[Joel709]

https://i.ibb.co/VgfkCMh/Screenshot-202 ... 105002.png

quite interesting looking back at both of Verstappens 2 years of pole laps.

Very interesting. The RB20 is a very different car to the RB19. They are slower in the snake and the main straight, but much faster in the second half of the track.

I must say this has confused me slightly, two things the bull has improved this year is it’s straight line speed and traction out of slow corners so to see such a difference in top speed is confusing. Maybe using lower deployment? Unsure, especially in quali.

[Emag]

https://i.ibb.co/VgfkCMh/Screenshot-202 ... 105002.png

quite interesting looking back at both of Verstappens 2 years of pole laps.

Very interesting. The RB20 is a very different car to the RB19. They are slower in the snake and the main straight, but much faster in the second half of the track.

I must say this has confused me slightly, two things the bull has improved this year is it’s straight line speed and traction out of slow corners so to see such a difference in top speed is confusing. Maybe using lower deployment? Unsure, especially in quali.

As napoleon suggested, the difference in top speed at the main straight could be explained by a tailwind last year.

[Joel709]

Very interesting. The RB20 is a very different car to the RB19. They are slower in the snake and the main straight, but much faster in the second half of the track.

I must say this has confused me slightly, two things the bull has improved this year is it’s straight line speed and traction out of slow corners so to see such a difference in top speed is confusing. Maybe using lower deployment? Unsure, especially in quali.

As napoleon suggested, the difference in top speed at the main straight could be explained by a tailwind last year.

I can confirm this looks to be the case, compared Ferrari and McLaren laps and all had atleast a 10kph advantage last year

[AR3-GP]

I must say this has confused me slightly, two things the bull has improved this year is it’s straight line speed and traction out of slow corners so to see such a difference in top speed is confusing. Maybe using lower deployment? Unsure, especially in quali.

As napoleon suggested, the difference in top speed at the main straight could be explained by a tailwind last year.

I can confirm this looks to be the case, compared Ferrari and McLaren laps and all had atleast a 10kph advantage last year

Did wind affect any other part of the lap and for the purposes of attempting to understand how the cars have improved, doesn't this mean that the 2024 cars actually improved even more than the numbers would suggest since the 2023 cars benefitted from a tailwind on the main straight?

[Joel709]

As napoleon suggested, the difference in top speed at the main straight could be explained by a tailwind last year.

I can confirm this looks to be the case, compared Ferrari and McLaren laps and all had atleast a 10kph advantage last year

Did wind affect any other part of the lap and for the purposes of attempting to understand how the cars have improved, doesn't this mean that the 2024 cars actually improved even more than the numbers would suggest since the 2023 cars benefitted from a tailwind on the main straight?

It’s rather hard to tell however each car has had a good improvement. Got to take into account that while they got a healthy tailwind, a lot of the lap they would have also got a headwind and cross wind so it’s difficult to judge how much was gained in total.