When scrawny kids can score points first time out...

[organic]

Excellent driver ITL simulator facilities that are available now do lower the gap for new drivers coming into the sport. But I don't think that means the cars are any easier to drive.

And there's also the factor that you mention that in any sport you can throw people in the deep end and some will swim.

[stewie325]

This weekend a scrawny 18 year old with only 28 teeth in his mouth hopped into a 1,000hp car in one of the most demanding tracks on the calendar no less, and was able drive right on pace with the top drivers for 50 laps without sending it into the barriers or blacking out. How disappointing.

This is what it is now people. Should it be like this? Are you OK with this? And what is happening exactly?

1) Formula 1 cars are no longer the beasts that they once were. They have become relatively easy to drive. A few practice sessions is enough to learn the limits and be right on pace for 300km.
...

I think part of the problem is that modern F1 cars are NOT driven at their limit for the entire race - not even remotely close to it.

- Firstly, because they're lugging around 100kg of fuel onboard at the start.
- Secondly, the cars are huge overweight tanks that have to be driven very smoothly or the Pirellis will heat up.
- Then the energy recovery systems don't allow many hot laps in succession without a slower lap for recharging.
- And finally, the DRS effect makes it very easy to fly-by, so drivers don't have to push as hard if they'll eventually overtake with a button.

All of that combined means a driver is probably often cruising by at 95% of their and the car's potential in the race.

[bluechris]

This weekend a scrawny 18 year old with only 28 teeth in his mouth hopped into a 1,000hp car in one of the most demanding tracks on the calendar no less, and was able drive right on pace with the top drivers for 50 laps without sending it into the barriers or blacking out. How disappointing.

This is what it is now people. Should it be like this? Are you OK with this? And what is happening exactly?

1) Formula 1 cars are no longer the beasts that they once were. They have become relatively easy to drive. A few practice sessions is enough to learn the limits and be right on pace for 300km.
...

I think part of the problem is that modern F1 cars are NOT driven at their limit for the entire race - not even remotely close to it.

- Firstly, because they're lugging around 100kg of fuel onboard at the start.
- Secondly, the cars are huge overweight tanks that have to be driven very smoothly or the Pirellis will heat up.
- Then the energy recovery systems don't allow many hot laps in succession without a slower lap for recharging.
- And finally, the DRS effect makes it very easy to fly-by, so drivers don't have to push as hard if they'll eventually overtake with a button.

All of that combined means a driver is probably often cruising by at 95% of their and the car's potential in the race.

Very good points , i agree

[Mosin123]

This weekend a scrawny 18 year old with only 28 teeth in his mouth hopped into a 1,000hp car in one of the most demanding tracks on the calendar no less, and was able drive right on pace with the top drivers for 50 laps without sending it into the barriers or blacking out. How disappointing.

This is what it is now people. Should it be like this? Are you OK with this? And what is happening exactly?

1) Formula 1 cars are no longer the beasts that they once were. They have become relatively easy to drive. A few practice sessions is enough to learn the limits and be right on pace for 300km.
...

I think part of the problem is that modern F1 cars are NOT driven at their limit for the entire race - not even remotely close to it.

- Firstly, because they're lugging around 100kg of fuel onboard at the start.
- Secondly, the cars are huge overweight tanks that have to be driven very smoothly or the Pirellis will heat up.
- Then the energy recovery systems don't allow many hot laps in succession without a slower lap for recharging.
- And finally, the DRS effect makes it very easy to fly-by, so drivers don't have to push as hard if they'll eventually overtake with a button.

All of that combined means a driver is probably often cruising by at 95% of their and the car's potential in the race.

Its not even a modern f1 thing....... as long as i can remember, drivers have always " managed " the pace of the car, only once have i seen a race in which that was not the case, and that was Senna at Monaco in some past long date i cant even remember ( Such a beautifull drive too )

[JordanMugen]

as long as i can remember, drivers have always " managed " the pace of the car

A lot of fans want things to be like the refuelling era -- Schumacher doing 3 stops with qualifying laps all the way for instance. Flat out all the way. But I remember that the only overtaking was done by waiting for the car in front to pit, so it wasn't the best...

[bluechris]

as long as i can remember, drivers have always " managed " the pace of the car

A lot of fans want things to be like the refuelling era -- Schumacher doing 3 stops with qualifying laps all the way for instance. Flat out all the way. But I remember that the only overtaking was done by waiting for the car in front to pit, so it wasn't the best...

Can we combine both era's? Refueling with better tires from the old days and 1 or 2 drs zones from current era?

[myurr]

Can we combine both era's? Refueling with better tires from the old days and 1 or 2 drs zones from current era?

Refuelling is rubbish for racing because a light car on old tyres is faster than a heavy car on new tyres. You need high degradation to change that equation, which then makes the tyres fragile so drivers don't want to attack on track.

Refuelling also shifts the dynamic between undercuts being beneficial to overcuts being beneficial. If you undercut an opponent you then have a heavier car losing laptime, you also spend longer in the pits taking on more fuel, and do more damage to the tyres through a heavier car. If you can extend your stint through fuel saving then you get the benefit of more laps at lower fuel levels, less time spent refuelling, a generally lighter car, fresher tyres through most of the race. So everyone pushes towards extreme fuel saving, again the antithesis of good racing.

I think there are some ancillary effects of lighter cars in general such as shorter braking distances, higher corner entry speeds, etc. which will make overtaking slightly harder.

Finally, with refuelling your race strategy is more or less baked in before you start. You can't be as reactive, you can't adapt to what other cars are doing around you. In general you use as little fuel as you can, extend your stint, and hope to get the overcut to make up time and seal your advantage. The refuelling era in the 2000s was generally a dismal era for on track racing. There's the odd bright exception but most races were dull and formulaic, and at the time we were all discussing the end of refuelling rather than praising its existence.

[Il Leone]

as long as i can remember, drivers have always " managed " the pace of the car

A lot of fans want things to be like the refuelling era -- Schumacher doing 3 stops with qualifying laps all the way for instance. Flat out all the way. But I remember that the only overtaking was done by waiting for the car in front to pit, so it wasn't the best...

This is something I've been thinking about. A hell of a lot of overtakes are made during the pit stop phase in this era as well, an undercut might be different than staying out later with less fuel but the net result is just the same isn't it?

[PlatinumZealot]

And 18 /19 year olds sometimes do brilliant physics, are frequently sent to war, are top-of-the bill ice skaters or soccer players, and so on.
So what's the point of this? You seen to answer it already in your 4th point: there is no problem, this is how the world works. Could have done that without calling him scrawny and whatnot though.

In bold to emphasize that muscles are not quite needed

My fourth point is clumsy because I was going to do the thread as a poll but was too lazy to finish editing it as a counter argument.

Interestingly found this!
Eddie seems to think the cars are too easy as well.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/eddie-jor ... mega-debut

[Waz]

Sometimes we overlook that F2 cars would annihilate virtually every other racing series apart from F1.

They'd certainly annihilate even F1 cars from the 90s.

We've seen this kind of thing before anyway all the way back to Michael Schumacher in Spa, and probably before that

[TeamKoolGreen]

Damon Hill didn't drive a 4 wheeled race car till he was 25 years old. And yet he won a title

[PlatinumZealot]

Fresh complaints form Gerhard berger, Eddie Jordan on the same topic. Cars too easy to drive.

[TeamKoolGreen]

These cars seem easier to drive because they are more stable , less power to weight and they make way less noise.

If they don't like these cars , they really won't like the 50% electric contraptions that are coming. And it is the Eddie Jordan generation that brought us these electric things. John Todt and his ilk.

It wasn't the new generation that brought us these cars. It was the old boys club that did. Its funny to see them drone on about these cars and the new drivers when they are the virtue signalling tossers that got us here.

[myurr]

These cars seem easier to drive because they are more stable , less power to weight and they make way less noise.

If they don't like these cars , they really won't like the 50% electric contraptions that are coming. And it is the Eddie Jordan generation that brought us these electric things. John Todt and his ilk.

It wasn't the new generation that brought us these cars. It was the old boys club that did. Its funny to see them drone on about these cars and the new drivers when they are the virtue signalling tossers that got us here.

It's also because they ARE easier to drive overall. That's not to say they're easy, but the drivers are optimising a lap to get the last second or so rather than struggling to keep the car on track full stop.

The teams spend $150m per annum to make the best possible racecar, with decades of advancements, building upon refined platforms and practices created by teams spending $400+m per annum. These are highly sophisticated cars designed to allow drivers to extract the maximum possible pace.

[TeamKoolGreen]

They are easier to physically drive. But harder to actually drive competativlely. The mid pack drivers are way more consistent and refined than they were a decade or 2 ago.