2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[CHT]

I agree that the pressure to make Hamilton win again for Mercedes is actually quite a negative burden at the moment and that its good for both sides to take a break. Mercedes engineers can start fresh without the baggage of feeling like they have to find a silver bullet for the next race weekend and without a constant feeling of guilt for not providing a car worthy of a 7x champion.

Then again, I thought the same thing when Alonso left Alpine and then they became even worse somehow...

Lewis has been one of the most vocal critics within Merc about the W13 and W14 designs, so much so that many
suspected that he may have a big part to play in Mike Elliotts exit.


In early Oct 2023 (after Suzuka), LH visited Merc's wind tunnel to observe the progress of W15 and left with high hopes and optimism. https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... tory-visit

By end Oct 2023, Mike Elliotts made the shocking decision to quit Merc GP and that was a big blow to Merc's technical department despite having James Alllison return as TD in March 2023.

And biggest blow for Merc of all (especially Toto) must be LH's decision to join rival Ferrari even before W15 hit the track.

Considering the chain of events, I reckon Merc board of directors should consider replacing Toto as TP regardless if he is a part owner or not because Toto's over indulgence over LH must have left a sour taste among many employees within the team. Suppose Merc is going to replace Toto, who will they choose?

[dialtone]

A board would never reason about firing the TP because a driver left a team they’ve been with after 10 years. Toto also owns 33% of the team, he’s not leaving if he doesn’t want to.

[ringo]

Hamilton has a good nose for when efforts will be futile.. He leaves Mercedes not one year too early and not one year too late. It can be argued that Mercedes owes him a championship they will never be able to give him back. And this bothers Toto.

A glass can be half full or half empty. One could say that LH should be grateful to Merc for providing him with winning cars all these years (even when he was in Mclaren)

LH moving to Ferrari is not without risk
a) Ferrari may not be able to deliver the car he needs to win
b) LH may not be quicker than younger teammate
c) Merc may bouce back in 2026 with a strong package
d) RB and Max may continue to dominate beyond 2025

Why so negative?
a to d can be all wrong.

This thread has become a bash toto and lewis and merc mob.

There should be more said about the experimenting and realizing temperature is a factor and which route to develop towards. It is possible the team figures things out in 5 months.

[CHT]

A board would never reason about firing the TP because a driver left a team they’ve been with after 10 years. Toto also owns 33% of the team, he’s not leaving if he doesn’t want to.

LH's shocking departure is a result of a much bigger problem within Merc team and the team is now left fighting against time to find a suitable replacement for 2025.

If you can recall, Ron Denis was forced to step down at Mclaren and eventually selling his shares in the company.
So there is nothing to stop other shareholders from replacing Toto if they believe someone else can do a better job.
(power of majority)

[dialtone]

A board would never reason about firing the TP because a driver left a team they’ve been with after 10 years. Toto also owns 33% of the team, he’s not leaving if he doesn’t want to.

LH's shocking departure is a result of a much bigger problem within Merc team and the team is now left fighting against time to find a suitable replacement for 2025.

If you can recall, Ron Denis was forced to step down at Mclaren and eventually selling his shares in the company.
So there is nothing to stop other shareholders from replacing Toto if they believe someone else can do a better job.
(power of majority)

If the downfall of Mercedes continues then sure, otherwise you can’t compare a team that was dead last in 2015 with one that was 2nd last year.

[CHT]

A board would never reason about firing the TP because a driver left a team they’ve been with after 10 years. Toto also owns 33% of the team, he’s not leaving if he doesn’t want to.

LH's shocking departure is a result of a much bigger problem within Merc team and the team is now left fighting against time to find a suitable replacement for 2025.

If you can recall, Ron Denis was forced to step down at Mclaren and eventually selling his shares in the company.
So there is nothing to stop other shareholders from replacing Toto if they believe someone else can do a better job.
(power of majority)

If the downfall of Mercedes continues then sure, otherwise you can’t compare a team that was dead last in 2015 with one that was 2nd last year.

2015? you need to look much further back in time to know what I am talking about

[Venturiation]

[Venturiation]

I agree that the pressure to make Hamilton win again for Mercedes is actually quite a negative burden at the moment and that its good for both sides to take a break. Mercedes engineers can start fresh without the baggage of feeling like they have to find a silver bullet for the next race weekend and without a constant feeling of guilt for not providing a car worthy of a 7x champion.

Then again, I thought the same thing when Alonso left Alpine and then they became even worse somehow...

Lewis has been one of the most vocal critics within Merc about the W13 and W14 designs, so much so that many
suspected that he may have a big part to play in Mike Elliotts exit.


In early Oct 2023 (after Suzuka), LH visited Merc's wind tunnel to observe the progress of W15 and left with high hopes and optimism. https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... tory-visit

By end Oct 2023, Mike Elliotts made the shocking decision to quit Merc GP and that was a big blow to Merc's technical department despite having James Alllison return as TD in March 2023.

And biggest blow for Merc of all (especially Toto) must be LH's decision to join rival Ferrari even before W15 hit the track.

Considering the chain of events, I reckon Merc board of directors should consider replacing Toto as TP regardless if he is a part owner or not because Toto's over indulgence over LH must have left a sour taste among many employees within the team. Suppose Merc is going to replace Toto, who will they choose?

Lewis explained in DTS that everytime he said something to the engineers they told him he was wrong and they know better and since then he stopped suggesting
This was during 2023 so even for 2024 they didn't rely on him

[venkyhere]

Pardon me for saying this, but how do we know that this is indeed true and not yet another gaslighting comment from Toto ? I even doubt whether the 'cooling' excuse from a less-hot-than-normal Bahrain GP was even true. I know it's cruel, but I wont believe anything that's coming from Mercedes to the media and the only thing I will believe are the laptimes.

[Venturiation]

Pardon me for saying this, but how do we know that this is indeed true and not yet another gaslighting comment from Toto ? I even doubt whether the 'cooling' excuse from a less-hot-than-normal Bahrain GP was even true. I know it's cruel, but I wont believe anything that's coming from Mercedes to the media and the only thing I will believe are the laptimes.

They are doing experiments
What I don't understand is why is lewis doing them and not their team leader 63

[chrisc90]

Isn’t there only really the front wing flap adjustments that could have been made without breaching parc ferme rules?

[CHT]

I agree that the pressure to make Hamilton win again for Mercedes is actually quite a negative burden at the moment and that its good for both sides to take a break. Mercedes engineers can start fresh without the baggage of feeling like they have to find a silver bullet for the next race weekend and without a constant feeling of guilt for not providing a car worthy of a 7x champion.

Then again, I thought the same thing when Alonso left Alpine and then they became even worse somehow...

Lewis has been one of the most vocal critics within Merc about the W13 and W14 designs, so much so that many
suspected that he may have a big part to play in Mike Elliotts exit.


In early Oct 2023 (after Suzuka), LH visited Merc's wind tunnel to observe the progress of W15 and left with high hopes and optimism. https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... tory-visit

By end Oct 2023, Mike Elliotts made the shocking decision to quit Merc GP and that was a big blow to Merc's technical department despite having James Alllison return as TD in March 2023.

And biggest blow for Merc of all (especially Toto) must be LH's decision to join rival Ferrari even before W15 hit the track.

Considering the chain of events, I reckon Merc board of directors should consider replacing Toto as TP regardless if he is a part owner or not because Toto's over indulgence over LH must have left a sour taste among many employees within the team. Suppose Merc is going to replace Toto, who will they choose?

Lewis explained in DTS that everytime he said something to the engineers they told him he was wrong and they know better and since then he stopped suggesting
This was during 2023 so even for 2024 they didn't rely on him

AN also said that many times the drivers are wrong.. even Max admitted the he was wrong about front wing set up at Suzuka.

[AR3-GP]

Pardon me for saying this, but how do we know that this is indeed true and not yet another gaslighting comment from Toto ? I even doubt whether the 'cooling' excuse from a less-hot-than-normal Bahrain GP was even true. I know it's cruel, but I wont believe anything that's coming from Mercedes to the media and the only thing I will believe are the laptimes.

They are doing experiments
What I don't understand is why is lewis doing them and not their team leader 63

Do you think Mercedes is the only team on the grid doing experiments? There are 6 teams that are slower than them. Even teams just ahead. No one has a perfect car.

The only difference here is that Mercedes turns their struggles and developments into a public theater. The other teams don’t say anything. This is all part of the attempt to make people think they are much faster than they actually are. It’s the 3rd season of this.

[ringo]

Isn’t there only really the front wing flap adjustments that could have been made without breaching parc ferme rules?

The experiments would have been for the whole weekend.
Lewis has no reason to impress so may have volunteed to be at service to Mercedes over the year. I dont see any issue with that. Fighting for the best crumbs is a waste of energy.
Best to experiement to get the car to fight for podiums. Let George drive his heart out if he wants.

The car has more downforce in a straightline it seems. And theyre able to have it in relatively short duration highspeed corners. But the car wont stick its rear down with direction changes or longer duration high speed stuff.
Could be loss of load on the rear axle from disturbances under the floor.
Tyre shape, suspension motion and load transfer, load distribution front to back, tyre grip because of temp front to back, transient flows under the floor comes to mind.
And ultimately floor sensitivity.

I do wonder if the floor edges are less sensitive when they are more parallel to the ground?
Looking on Mclaren's floor, a good portion of the edge say 80 to 100 mm of it from the edge is flat. Mercedes floor edge maybe 70mm is flat before it opens up to the cavern underneath.
Could having a flatter portion, closer to the ground provide better consistency, and sealing or stability?
Note i have not red the tech regs on these GE floors. I find the nee tech regs confusing compared to the last formula.

[Hammerfist]

Man they don’t even know how to stick to one story. The driver says one thing and Toto says another. Not good.