2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[CjC]

Ok thank you.
Not sure what the rest of you think but to me a lot of that article didn’t really make sense.

Back to upgrades…. Everyone will be hopeful about their own developments….. Stella is optimistic Mclaren can catch Ferrari….. if you look on Autosport Sainz is optimistic they can fight Red Bull for wins which has spiked rumours that they must have something special planned for Imola…

[Emag]

Ok thank you.
Not sure what the rest of you think but to me a lot of that article didn’t really make sense.

Back to upgrades…. Everyone will be hopeful about their own developments….. Stella is optimistic Mclaren can catch Ferrari….. if you look on Autosport Sainz is optimistic they can fight Red Bull for wins which has spiked rumours that they must have something special planned for Imola…

It has been no secret that Ferrari has had something big planned for Imola. It was known before the season even started. Numbers thrown around evaluate their package at 0.2-0.25s but I call bs on those claims. You never know what the gains will be until you hit the track, and it will be worth a different amount on different tracks.

Nevertheless, I would assume if this number came out from any reliable internal source at Ferrari, it would be the least optimistic one since obviously they wouldn't want to hype up something that might not translate on track.

If we assume a worst case scenario (for McLaren), and Ferrari's upgrade brings them closer to 0.4-0.5s worth of laptime, that would make Ferrari on par if not better than RedBull. Well, at least the current RedBull, since actually they're rumored to bring a relatively large upgrade package of their own in Imola ...

Basically, with all this talk of big upgrade packages and McLaren's current deficit to the top 2, they would need quite a substantial package in Miami if they want to keep tabs with the top 2 after their raft of upgrades.

[LionsHeart]

Even though some continue to say that the team will have a hard time in Shanghai, I am still more realistic: most likely the car will still be the 3rd fastest at the race distance. In Shanghai there is a lot of emphasis on the front left wheel, as in Suzuka and Silverstone. And on tracks where the limit is on the front end, McLaren looks competitive, so I don’t believe that Mercedes and Aston are capable of catching and overtaking at the race distance.

Yes, there are 3-4 slow turns on the track, which have a negative impact, but the characteristics of the track are such that in terms of chassis balance, McLaren will be fine. There is another nuance: there will be only one free practice and who successfully selects the settings will depend on the rest of the weekend. However, as far as I remember, the closed park rule on sprint weekends was adjusted.

If the teams bring an aero package with settings similar to Australia, then McLaren will be strong, even despite two long slow turns and two hairpins. But I agree that it will be more difficult for the team. Red Bull and Ferrari will go far ahead. Even though I expected after winter testing that the team would be second fastest, and now they are only third fastest, there is no reason why the team cannot make some strong steps forward in upgrading the chassis and aerodynamics, which will allow them to beat Ferrari on race pace.

Last year we were able to make sure that the team was able to modify the car during the season, and this was with the old wind tunnel. Now we are preparing to see the first aero package, which will be developed on a new wind tunnel, which is capable of taking into account more parameters, including the steering angle of the front wheels.

So far, Stella is living up to expectations. From the very start of the season, the team has been confidently holding third place in the Constructors' Championship, and this was done before new engineers joined the team at the old wind tunnel. I also had a question, has the team managed to update the simulator? I don't remember news about this last year.

[mwillems]

I'm not sure anyone doubted that the car would still be third fastest, from what I have read. Just that the gap to Ferrari and RB would increase and we'd get close to the other Merc powered cars. This will be closer to Bahrain in terms of results.

In the race there are also some long slow corners that will hurt for the first half, particularly at the start. The issue being that turn 12 into 13 is really important as it leads onto the longest straight with a big DRS zone, so this will probably hurt in race config and we will for sure have battles to retain position for a while at China.

Crucially, we will struggle to overtake, so Qualifying is really important and so at China the drivers really need to make sure they are on top form in Qualifying.

But to look at the positives, the Sprint race will be a configuration that suits the car and the issues should be less prevalent, and so we have an opportunity to still get some good points. Sprint races in general will see the car shake off some of it's weakness and be a better all round car.

[LionsHeart]

I'm not sure anyone doubted that the car would still be third fastest, from what I have read. Just that the gap to Ferrari and RB would increase and we'd get close to the other Merc powered cars. This will be closer to Bahrain in terms of results.

In the race there are also some long slow corners that will hurt for the first half, particularly at the start. The issue being that turn 12 into 13 is really important as it leads onto the longest straight with a big DRS zone, so this will probably hurt in race config and we will for sure have battles to retain position for a while at China.

Crucially, we will struggle to overtake, so Qualifying is really important and so at China the drivers really need to make sure they are on top form in Qualifying.

But to look at the positives, the Sprint race will be a configuration that suits the car and the issues should be less prevalent, and so we have an opportunity to still get some good points. Sprint races in general will see the car shake off some of it's weakness and be a better all round car.

Well I've already seen that the team will be 5th fastest behind Aston and Merc. I understand their judgment and what they are based on, but I myself don't believe in such a development.

The car looked good on the straights, without using DRS. How this factor will affect the race is a very big question. Perhaps this is where they will easily overtake us. The chassis has good traction out of corners. Do you think there will be big problems in turns 12-13?

[mwillems]

I'm not sure anyone doubted that the car would still be third fastest, from what I have read. Just that the gap to Ferrari and RB would increase and we'd get close to the other Merc powered cars. This will be closer to Bahrain in terms of results.

In the race there are also some long slow corners that will hurt for the first half, particularly at the start. The issue being that turn 12 into 13 is really important as it leads onto the longest straight with a big DRS zone, so this will probably hurt in race config and we will for sure have battles to retain position for a while at China.

Crucially, we will struggle to overtake, so Qualifying is really important and so at China the drivers really need to make sure they are on top form in Qualifying.

But to look at the positives, the Sprint race will be a configuration that suits the car and the issues should be less prevalent, and so we have an opportunity to still get some good points. Sprint races in general will see the car shake off some of it's weakness and be a better all round car.

Well I've already seen that the team will be 5th fastest behind Aston and Merc. I understand their judgment and what they are based on, but I myself don't believe in such a development.

The car looked good on the straights, without using DRS. How this factor will affect the race is a very big question. Perhaps this is where they will easily overtake us. The chassis has good traction out of corners. Do you think there will be big problems in turns 12-13?

I'd not seen that prediction to be fair, it's probably one of the "outliers" I shall see it as statistically unimportant

Yes turn 12 here fits the profile of a corner that we will struggle through, with the car getting better traction in 13, I think this will make us pay. I will be watching turn 13 with interest but our exit should be easier here but our car will be compromised by this point in race configuration, but not in Qualifying or the sprint.

There's probably 6 slow corners that will hurt. 2,3,6,9, 11, 12 and 14, and it's worth considering that on the long straight and in the small high speed section, both are compromised by corners we won't enjoy. The home straight is more to our liking with a mid speed corner that doesn't require too much input at turn 16.

But that said, if the issues in these corners don't show in Q then we've got a good chance in the race as I think the long straight is where we might be vulnerable. Most of the straight is a DRS zone. We can maintain position everywhere else. The problem is that turn 12 will allow someone to get very close to us, even if the exit from 13 is fine, and then straight into endless DRS.

Turns 2 and 3 will be particularly unpleasant in the race, potentially, due to the long twisting slow sections they are.

[mwillems]

What remains to be seen is how good the Merc and AM are here, I'm not sure. But if they get ahead of us in the race we may struggle to get positions back. If everything goes well, we can have a good race, but if we are compromised the issue is that it is hard track for us to make up position. But like I say, in the sprint races we will be close to Qualifying spec, which is where the car can shake off its issues and be a strong all rounder, so we can still enjoy the weekend even if the Sunday is tough.

Edit: The teams will leave Par Ferme after the sprint race, and go into Parc Ferme at Qualifying, which means after the sprint race they can make adjustments based on what they have learnt in the sprint race, so the setup lottery will be gone. This might help us do well in the sprint though if we can focus the car on sprint setup and maximise the inherent good traits of the car under low fuelling.

[LionsHeart]

What remains to be seen is how good the Merc and AM are here, I'm not sure. But if they get ahead of us in the race we may struggle to get positions back. If everything goes well, we can have a good race, but if we are compromised the issue is that it is hard track for us to make up position. But like I say, in the sprint races we will be close to Qualifying spec, which is where the car can shake off its issues and be a strong all rounder, so we can still enjoy the weekend even if the Sunday is tough.

Edit: The teams will leave Par Ferme after the sprint race, and go into Parc Ferme at Qualifying, which means after the sprint race they can make adjustments based on what they have learnt in the sprint race, so the setup lottery will be gone. This might help us do well in the sprint though if we can focus the car on sprint setup and maximise the inherent good traits of the car under low fuelling.

Ok, understood. Thanks!

[mwillems]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/04/ ... tal-gains/


Stella saying that Piastris tyre and race management was much better compared to last year.

[ScottR267]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... explained/

Interesting read/viewing

[continuum16]

Without having looked at any "predictions" data, it seems to me like they might struggle a bit here, no? We know from observation + anecdotes and even past data that they struggle the most on low-speed and long-radius corners. To me it seems like there is no worse sequence of corners for McLaren on the calendar than the opening sequence; it's a solid 10+ seconds of damn-near full lock at decreasing speed with a direction change. Plus the corner leading onto the back straight (also not ideal for McLaren), which is similar but in reverse. Really only a couple high-speed turns in S2. If they can get both cars in the top 7 I think they should be satisfied. Although it's a sprint so I'd expect wider gaps between teams due to lack of practice so I guess anything is possible.

[mwillems]

Without having looked at any "predictions" data, it seems to me like they might struggle a bit here, no? We know from observation + anecdotes and even past data that they struggle the most on low-speed and long-radius corners. To me it seems like there is no worse sequence of corners for McLaren on the calendar than the opening sequence; it's a solid 10+ seconds of damn-near full lock at decreasing speed with a direction change. Plus the corner leading onto the back straight (also not ideal for McLaren), which is similar but in reverse. Really only a couple high-speed turns in S2. If they can get both cars in the top 7 I think they should be satisfied. Although it's a sprint so I'd expect wider gaps between teams due to lack of practice so I guess anything is possible.

Teams can update the setup after the sprint and before Qualy. Those corners you mention will be troublesome, along with a few others. But mainly in the race, and possibly not so much in the sprint.

Sector 2 has two corners that could be troublesome, 6 and 9. Worth noting that the car struggles just as much also in long medium speed corners (Sub 180, maybe higher at the very start) when fully fuelled, getting better as the race goes on, with the issue disappearing about two thirds through the race leaving only issues in the slower corners. But yeah, the first twisty section of corners 2 and 3 will be painful. So will 11 and 12.

But I don't know if AM or Merc will be able to catch, but I haven't tried to understand their cars either. Anecdotally, it doesn't look they they have enough to trouble us.

[continuum16]

Without having looked at any "predictions" data, it seems to me like they might struggle a bit here, no? We know from observation + anecdotes and even past data that they struggle the most on low-speed and long-radius corners. To me it seems like there is no worse sequence of corners for McLaren on the calendar than the opening sequence; it's a solid 10+ seconds of damn-near full lock at decreasing speed with a direction change. Plus the corner leading onto the back straight (also not ideal for McLaren), which is similar but in reverse. Really only a couple high-speed turns in S2. If they can get both cars in the top 7 I think they should be satisfied. Although it's a sprint so I'd expect wider gaps between teams due to lack of practice so I guess anything is possible.

Teams can update the setup after the sprint and before Qualy. Those corners you mention will be troublesome, along with a few others. But mainly in the race, and possibly not so much in the sprint.

Sector 2 has two corners that could be troublesome, 6 and 9. Worth noting that the car struggles just as much also in long medium speed corners (Sub 180, maybe higher at the very start) when fully fuelled, getting better as the race goes on, with the issue disappearing about two thirds through the race leaving only issues in the slower corners. But yeah, the first twisty section of corners 2 and 3 will be painful. So will 11 and 12.

But I don't know if AM or Merc will be able to catch, but I haven't tried to understand their cars either. Anecdotally, it doesn't look they they have enough to trouble us.

If I had to guess Alonso will be close (maybe ahead if AMR nails the setup like they did in Brazil last year), but Merc probably will be behind and Stroll also. Basically like Suzuka.

[mwillems]

Without having looked at any "predictions" data, it seems to me like they might struggle a bit here, no? We know from observation + anecdotes and even past data that they struggle the most on low-speed and long-radius corners. To me it seems like there is no worse sequence of corners for McLaren on the calendar than the opening sequence; it's a solid 10+ seconds of damn-near full lock at decreasing speed with a direction change. Plus the corner leading onto the back straight (also not ideal for McLaren), which is similar but in reverse. Really only a couple high-speed turns in S2. If they can get both cars in the top 7 I think they should be satisfied. Although it's a sprint so I'd expect wider gaps between teams due to lack of practice so I guess anything is possible.

Teams can update the setup after the sprint and before Qualy. Those corners you mention will be troublesome, along with a few others. But mainly in the race, and possibly not so much in the sprint.

Sector 2 has two corners that could be troublesome, 6 and 9. Worth noting that the car struggles just as much also in long medium speed corners (Sub 180, maybe higher at the very start) when fully fuelled, getting better as the race goes on, with the issue disappearing about two thirds through the race leaving only issues in the slower corners. But yeah, the first twisty section of corners 2 and 3 will be painful. So will 11 and 12.

But I don't know if AM or Merc will be able to catch, but I haven't tried to understand their cars either. Anecdotally, it doesn't look they they have enough to trouble us.

If I had to guess Alonso will be close (maybe ahead if AMR nails the setup like they did in Brazil last year), but Merc probably will be behind and Stroll also. Basically like Suzuka.

Merc I think will be behind, but the problem is if we get behind anyone through strategy, mishap, qualifying etc... then we will struggle to regain position. The places to overtake here need an efficient DRS, or a good nose that will get you into the slower corners on the inside... we have neither

Unless we can do something with Setup at this unique track, maybe we can dial out the issues a little like last year.

Alonso is always a wild card, he's one of the best still and this upgrade hasn't had the chance to show its colours. How will it do at this configuration and will the car struggle in the race... but they are probably the bigger threat.

But I'm pinning my optimism on the fact that Sprint race and Qualifying will see us have a fast and balanced car, so the drivers have the tools to get points on Saturday, as well as strong position for the race start.

Sunday is a different matter entirely...

[mwillems]

I suppose the drivers have a chance to fight to retain position anywhere, except for the back straight, where it will be too easy for us to be sitting ducks.

But I foresee a very defensive Sunday. I would love to be wrong though, and they may pull something out of the hat.