2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Xyz22
Xyz22
123
Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Silent Storm wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:28
Xyz22 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 15:57
Silent Storm wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 15:45


Are you talking about lap 13-15?
18-19-20
I believe Lando could have done the same but he lost 6 tenths in last sector because Max overtook him.
In my view Mclaren were similar on degradation this race compared to Ferrari. 1st stint was cut short but lap 32 onwards gave us a better picture of degradation. Lando stepped into 1min40' on lap 53 while the same for Charles was from lap 45.
Oh yeah McL had Ferrari covered. Ferrari lost way too much time at the start and they were just slow with the hards.

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

LM10 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:30
CouncilorIrissa wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:10
Vinlarr89 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 14:56


Thankyou, another sensible human being on here! What people fail to remember is very few if any cars have ever been as consistent as the RBRs and now we expect to suddenly match this level of consistency.

...
What we need to be mindful of is MB. Look how they struggle season after season. They were considered the gold standard just 3 seasons ago. Put things into perspective
Well, it's not like the competition has any choice if they want to win, is it? Red Bull show that it's possible to have a car that works in all conditions for two season straight, all while having the least wind tunnel time allocation of any team.

My personal annoyance stems from the fact that the team has brought two minor upgrades, yet seems to go backwards compared to MCL who brought none. With them bringing upgrades in Miami, Ferrari are practically guaranteed to finish 5-6 at best.
There we have it again. :) An example of totally ignoring any factors whatsoever. Black and white “analysis”.

For the first time this season Ferrari was not faster than McLaren in the race while in all the the other races they comfortably were. Instead of looking at the full picture and factor in the coldest temps of the season in China, you claim that Ferrari has gone backwards compared to Mclaren.

Also, Ferrari has basically brought no upgrades either…
Bahrain was colder than China…
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

chrisc90 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:45
Bahrain was colder than China…
Whatever, both colder than the usual F1 tracks.

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

LM10 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:48
chrisc90 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:45
Bahrain was colder than China…
Whatever, both colder than the usual F1 tracks.
Jeddah was only a couple degrees warmer.

I’m not buying this track temp thing at this point in the season played by a few. So far, Australia is a outlier
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

Silent Storm
Silent Storm
111
Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

LM10 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:48
chrisc90 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:45
Bahrain was colder than China…
Whatever, both colder than the usual F1 tracks.
Last year Spa track temperature was 27° the whole race and Bahrain 2024 was 24° at start and 22° at end.
China was 30.5°
The cheapest sort of pride is national pride, every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

chrisc90 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:50
LM10 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:48
chrisc90 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:45
Bahrain was colder than China…
Whatever, both colder than the usual F1 tracks.
Jeddah was only a couple degrees warmer.

I’m not buying this track temp thing at this point in the season played by a few. So far, Australia is a outlier
You’re free to buy it or not.

dialtone
dialtone
121
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Silent Storm wrote:
LM10 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:48
chrisc90 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:45
Bahrain was colder than China…
Whatever, both colder than the usual F1 tracks.
Last year Spa track temperature was 27° the whole race and Bahrain 2024 was 24° at start and 22° at end.
China was 30.5°
Car setup wasn’t right for China. They had the fastest top speed in the race and that was supposed to help in s3 but ultimately didn’t help enough and s1 was really bad.

It’s also obvious tire warmup played a big part here, at the start both Ferraris lost 2 positions, after 2 laps LEC pulled 2 great passes and the car wasn’t slower than Russell any more. We can speculate the why here and not in other races but we can’t really speculate it happened.

Leclerc also commented how the hard tire didn’t feel great after the restart and that would be the first time this year the harder tire wasn’t better on the Ferrari.

Neither Ferrari nor MCL got upgrades, especially not between sprint and race, so the pace difference is down to setup changes and turning on the tires. Again, we can speculate the why, but not the facts.

This wasn’t a good race and good job MCL. Ferrari has all the data to learn what happened and hopefully they do learn it.

FDD
FDD
80
Joined: 29 Mar 2019, 01:08

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

LM10 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 14:37
Vanja, thank you for being one of the very few here making sense. :) This thread is ridiculous at times - everything is either black or white. It only takes one race for all to reset their minds and call everything a disaster. :roll:

Seems like some people here like to ignore obvious factors like how the SF-24 is built und works. It's not a surprise anymore that cold weather makes the car struggle and it should also not be a surprise that most of the races in the calendar will have hot weather with high track temps where Ferrari in comparison to others will excel. It's happened this year already when Ferrari had best deg of the field, even better than RBR, as you pointed out.

Instead of thinking about it and being happy that even in such conditions the team maximized points and scored as many points as McLaren they go on a hating spree and talk about an awful weekend or that there is a lot lot lot (times 100) of work to do.

First races with a brand new concept for Ferrari, no upgrades yet and still clear number two in the constructor's standings with less gap to Red Bull than to McLaren behind. Where is the problem?
I am buying this :)
Very satisfied with the results till now and waiting for the update, not in hurry, I want to see update with upgrade, not only update :)

Silent Storm
Silent Storm
111
Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

dialtone wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 17:17
Silent Storm wrote:
LM10 wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 16:48


Whatever, both colder than the usual F1 tracks.
Last year Spa track temperature was 27° the whole race and Bahrain 2024 was 24° at start and 22° at end.
China was 30.5°
Car setup wasn’t right for China. They had the fastest top speed in the race and that was supposed to help in s3 but ultimately didn’t help enough and s1 was really bad.

It’s also obvious tire warmup played a big part here, at the start both Ferraris lost 2 positions, after 2 laps LEC pulled 2 great passes and the car wasn’t slower than Russell any more. We can speculate the why here and not in other races but we can’t really speculate it happened.

Leclerc also commented how the hard tire didn’t feel great after the restart and that would be the first time this year the harder tire wasn’t better on the Ferrari.

Neither Ferrari nor MCL got upgrades, especially not between sprint and race, so the pace difference is down to setup changes and turning on the tires. Again, we can speculate the why, but not the facts.

This wasn’t a good race and good job MCL. Ferrari has all the data to learn what happened and hopefully they do learn it.
I agree with what you said that it's setup and aero config related. Obviously we can only speculate but my reply was to LM10 saying these two tracks were colder than usual, which is not the case.
The cheapest sort of pride is national pride, every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

User avatar
Vanja #66
1571
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Do we seriously have to discuss basics every once a while? :lol:

No problem, let's do it again. Every track requires a certain base setup for every car. It depends on the tyre compound range brought for the venue (first and foremost), type of corners, track surface, amount of bumps, kerb height, amount of kerb riding, ride height etc. Gauging the influence of track temperature and getting the on-track setup to cover it is part of the work done over the weekend. On-track setup that goes outside the pre-determined parameter window (camber, tyre pressures, toe angles, numerous damper and spring settings, etc) will cause more trouble than good more often than not - graining, excessive pickup, excessive plank wear.

If the suspension is inherently designed to stress and heat up the tyres less, it will be the feature of the car in all conditions. This is not something track-specific setup can fully compensate - because this means you go outside the window for one or more parameters and it will screw the car up. You can't use stiffer springs and decrease the camber - this reduces contact patch because the car will roll more and of the patch.

The harder the compound, the more heat it requires to get into the window. Under the window there's less grip available and if you drive to the limit of available grip (and not overdrive) your tyre will last longer but you will be slower. In the window the grip is optimal and degradation is a bit higher. Over the window the grip can drop suddenly and deg is much higher still.

Why does Jeddah get the softest range in spite of high-speed corners and chicanes which heat up the tyre? Because the surface is very smooth and does not bring too much energy into soft tyres and the race is driven in the night when temperatures are lower. Why does Bahrain get the hardest compound range? Because the surface is very rough and there's lots of hard braking and hard acceleration.

Pirelli tyres have a very small window and consequences for leaving it are instant. This is by design, required since way back in 2011 to improve the show by making it much harder to design a car that will hit the right window on every track and all conditions. Red Bull doesn't make it work perfectly every single time, but right now they have a downforce advantage (and therefore aero efficiency advantage) that covers them almost every time.

Why does McLaren come alive in Q and cold right now? Because the car heats up the tyres quickly, which is especially important when running on Hards. Today the conditions were perfect for Norris' and Max' setups, Alonso was too aggressive with his setup and Ferrari were too conservative. Maybe they could have been more aggressive, maybe not. Vasseur suggests they could have qualified further ahead, so maybe they could have gone for a more aggressive setup. In the end it was a difficult weekend and not even Red Bull had at least one car on podium in every race so far.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
Vanja #66
1571
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

dialtone wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 17:17
Car setup wasn’t right for China. They had the fastest top speed in the race and that was supposed to help in s3 but ultimately didn’t help enough and s1 was really bad.
They didn't change aero spec between Sprint and Q, no team did. On Top Speed they were slower than, but as close to RB as they always are in Q. If they brought and used a bigger rear wing they would have lost too much time on straights, especially in the race.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

dialtone
dialtone
121
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
dialtone wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 17:17
Car setup wasn’t right for China. They had the fastest top speed in the race and that was supposed to help in s3 but ultimately didn’t help enough and s1 was really bad.
They didn't change aero spec between Sprint and Q, no team did. On Top Speed they were slower than, but as close to RB as they always are in Q. If they brought and used a bigger rear wing they would have lost too much time on straights, especially in the race.
They had the smallest wing all weekend, in the race they were clearly top without drs at 336 with LEC, while VER was 332 like NOR. If you look at the wing pics the difference is pretty big.

RBR had most wing followed by MCL and Ferrari the least through the weekend.

Imho what happened is that the balance simply didn’t allow to push the car in the first corners of a stint which delayed putting temperature in them and eventually the gain in top speed wasn’t enough anyway to offset the penalty in corners. Ferrari probably thought it was going to be more front limited than it actually ended up being.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

dialtone wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 20:26
They had the smallest wing all weekend, in the race they were clearly top without drs at 336 with LEC, while VER was 332 like NOR. If you look at the wing pics the difference is pretty big.
No car reached 336 km/h without DRS so that must be an error.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 21 Apr 2024, 20:33, edited 1 time in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

dialtone
dialtone
121
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
dialtone wrote:
21 Apr 2024, 20:26
They had the smallest wing all weekend, in the race they were clearly top without drs at 336 with LEC, while VER was 332 like NOR. If you look at the wing pics the difference is pretty big.
No car reached 336 km/h without DRS so that must be an error.
I’ll recheck later.

If drs is included though, you can take that speed with drs on, which still shows Ferrari with less load.

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Normally sf-24 is better on harder compounds. But this weekend it couldn't use soft or hard?

Looking at top speeds from the race is full of anomalies. Wind can change direction, having DRS at the start/end of the race, or having DRS with old/fresh tyres will change top speeds significantly.

Ferrari are running the same wing that they've been running all year so far I believe. In quali they hit 332 km/h consistently whereas AMR and RB were at 336km/h