2024 Chinese GP

[PlatinumZealot]

Missed the race but got the story in a nut shell here. F1 need to think seriously about the product theyre selling. I used to. Make effort to watch all races. Not so much these days.
Miami may be even more boring.

There are 24 races this season it's ok to miss some.

It's the competitors that are below par. Just like it was the competitors who were below from 2014 to 2020. Can't blame FIA/Liberty/Red Bull/Verstappen. Same could be said of Mercedes and Hamilton previously.

The only entertainment now is to see how Alonso drives an inferior car amongst better cars that creates a small sideshow behind Max.

I hate orbitrary rule changes to penalize the team that has done a better job. But something need to change and I don't know what.

The teams have something to do with it too. If a top teams philosphy of racing is "pure" they will both the quickest drivers in both seats. If a teams believes in calmy securing maximum points to win the WDC at all costs, they will have a number 1 and number 2 driver. The other philosphies are for midfield and backmarker teams that I wont go into here.

McLaren and Mercedes fall into the first catergory. Ferrari in recent years only! has fell into this category with the rise of Binotto.

RedBull are squarely in the second category since 2011. Multi-one-two remember?

Aston are not a top team once they have the Stroll situation.. It's a pseudo mid-field with paydriver/owner-driver.

Once RedBull continues to dominate and continue the philosphy of calmy collecting maximum points for the number one driver the races will always be boring.

They can change this by getting Max an elite teammate. But they won't. Not their philosohy of racing.

[organic]

They can change this by getting Max an elite teammate. But they won't. Not their philosohy of racing.

They have been attempting to sign Norris for years..

Also they had Verstappen and Ricciardo together, right? Promoted Verstappen despite having a team leader of Ricciardo. Only lost Ricciardo because he wanted to leave, and then RB had no options for a while. When they wanted to demote Albon, there were no better options than Perez. At the time many on here thought Perez would humble Max.

[Seanspeed]

I dont think there's any divide on philosophy in that regard with all the teams. They just do what is convenient for the situation. Obviously if you dont have a top car, you'll tend to want the best driver pairing possible in order to maximize team points. If you've got a championship-capable car, then it's sometimes simpler to go with a more lead driver focus, though I think most teams are fine with having a second fast driver as well, they just aren't going to go out of their way to pay for one when they dont need to. Mercedes were fine with Bottas as they were with Rosberg. Rosberg just happened to be in the team before 2014 and obviously wasn't hurting the team's chances, so they kept him until he retired on his own. No change in philosophy, they just didn't need somebody as good as Rosberg, and Bottas was a decently rated driver at the time.

Not Mercedes, nor Ferrari are going to go out of their way to have two elite drivers if they already have a dominant car.

[PlatinumZealot]

They can change this by getting Max an elite teammate. But they won't. Not their philosohy of racing.

They have been attempting to sign Norris for years..

There has never been any evidence of this. Talks don't count either.

Also they had Verstappen and Ricciardo together, right? Promoted Verstappen despite having a team leader of Ricciardo. Only lost Ricciardo because he wanted to leave, and then RB had no options for a while. When they wanted to demote Albon, there were no better options than Perez. At the time many on here thought Perez would humble Max.

Ricciardo realised quite early that Max would be made number 1 - according to the RedBull philosophy.. and that's why he left. If the philosophy was equal drivers he would have stayed. So that sorta reinforces my hypothesis.

[organic]

They can change this by getting Max an elite teammate. But they won't. Not their philosohy of racing.

They have been attempting to sign Norris for years..

There has never been any evidence of this. Talks don't count either.

Also they had Verstappen and Ricciardo together, right? Promoted Verstappen despite having a team leader of Ricciardo. Only lost Ricciardo because he wanted to leave, and then RB had no options for a while. When they wanted to demote Albon, there were no better options than Perez. At the time many on here thought Perez would humble Max.

Ricciardo realised quite early that Max would be made number 1 - according to the RedBull philosophy.. and that's why he left. If the philosophy was equal drivers he would have stayed. So that sorta reinforces my hypothesis.

Everything always proves your hypotheses even when counter evidence is provided. It's almost pointless arguing otherwise, so much so that most here have given up trying to disagree with you

Norris was set to drive for Toro Rosso in 2019 (contract agreed) until a last minute decision. Maybe you just didn't follow closely?

Zak brown:

"We were fully aware that if he wasn't going to drive for us next year, he'd be driving for someone else."

Brown said "it would be Toro Rosso"

Marko:

We had already reached an agreement with Norris for Toro Rosso at the time, until his manager realised that there was an option in the contract with McLaren

McLaren themselves said they rejected the proposal mid 2018 it really happened

Speaking about the Toro Rosso offer, a McLaren spokesman said: "We are not surprised that other teams approach our drivers. They clearly believe they are as talented as we do."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... s/3222068/

Speaking about the Toro Rosso offer, Norris said: "I'm flattered by the stories but I'm focussed on F2 and committed to McLaren

[PlatinumZealot]

They have been attempting to sign Norris for years..

There has never been any evidence of this. Talks don't count either.

Also they had Verstappen and Ricciardo together, right? Promoted Verstappen despite having a team leader of Ricciardo. Only lost Ricciardo because he wanted to leave, and then RB had no options for a while. When they wanted to demote Albon, there were no better options than Perez. At the time many on here thought Perez would humble Max.

Ricciardo realised quite early that Max would be made number 1 - according to the RedBull philosophy.. and that's why he left. If the philosophy was equal drivers he would have stayed. So that sorta reinforces my hypothesis.

Everything always proves your hypotheses even when counter evidence is provided. It's pointless arguing otherwise, so much so that most here have given up trying to disagree with you

Norris was set to drive for Toro Rosso in 2019 (contract agreed) until a last minute decision. Maybe you just didn't follow closely?

Evidence please?

And how exactly is Ricciardo.. the incumbent driver.. seen as putting someone elite alongside Max? It was Max that entered onto Riccairdo's team. And then after that point, they promoted from within, until Sergio came along as the perfect number 2.

Before Max there was Webber and Vettel, even keels up to 2010, when they realized after 2009 that the best way to win is to keep a solid number 1 and number 2 driver.

When Webber retired and Riccairdo took his place in 2014 RedBull did not know until winter testing that he would run Vettel close. And at that point 2014 was a sort of crazy year with no proper challenge to the title anyway.

[SKYnRacing24]

Albon about the tyres to F1TV:

Quote

It was amazing, the tyres this weekend have been... struggling, is the most diplomatic word to use. They increased the minimum pressures again last night.

I mean, the tyres last literally four corners out of the pit lane. You feel really good through 2 and 3, and then they are gone again.

[The pressures are] so high it's just tearing the tyre up. Safety, safety, but it's painful.

We're putting so much [front] flap in the car, normally you take out flap for a racing car, but you just have to keep it in and deal with the oversteer.

Ridiculous tbh

[organic]

There has never been any evidence of this. Talks don't count either.


Ricciardo realised quite early that Max would be made number 1 - according to the RedBull philosophy.. and that's why he left. If the philosophy was equal drivers he would have stayed. So that sorta reinforces my hypothesis.

Everything always proves your hypotheses even when counter evidence is provided. It's pointless arguing otherwise, so much so that most here have given up trying to disagree with you

Norris was set to drive for Toro Rosso in 2019 (contract agreed) until a last minute decision. Maybe you just didn't follow closely?

Evidence please?

And how exactly is Ricciardo.. the incumbent driver.. seen as putting someone elite alongside Max? It was Max that entered onto Riccairdo's team. And then after that point, they promoted from within, until Sergio came along as the perfect number 2.

Before Max there was Webber and Vettel, even keels up to 2010, when they realized after 2009 that the best way to win is to keep a solid number 1 and number 2 driver.

When Webber retired and Riccairdo took his place in 2014 RedBull did not know until winter testing that he would run Vettel close. And at that point 2014 was a sort of crazy year with no proper challenge to the title anyway.

Added necessary "evidence" to the original post which really was just common knowledge

Ricciardo had supplanted Vettel and established himself.. as the #1.. and then they added a Verstappen to the pot who everyone knew would be dynamite. You don't bother doing that if you're happy with a #1 #2 dynamic forever

[Sieper]

There are 24 races this season it's ok to miss some.

It's the competitors that are below par. Just like it was the competitors who were below from 2014 to 2020. Can't blame FIA/Liberty/Red Bull/Verstappen. Same could be said of Mercedes and Hamilton previously.

The only entertainment now is to see how Alonso drives an inferior car amongst better cars that creates a small sideshow behind Max.

I hate orbitrary rule changes to penalize the team that has done a better job. But something need to change and I don't know what.

The teams have something to do with it too. If a top teams philosphy of racing is "pure" they will both the quickest drivers in both seats. If a teams believes in calmy securing maximum points to win the WDC at all costs, they will have a number 1 and number 2 driver. The other philosphies are for midfield and backmarker teams that I wont go into here.

McLaren and Mercedes fall into the first catergory. Ferrari in recent years only! has fell into this category with the rise of Binotto.

RedBull are squarely in the second category since 2011. Multi-one-two remember?

Aston are not a top team once they have the Stroll situation.. It's a pseudo mid-field with paydriver/owner-driver.

Once RedBull continues to dominate and continue the philosphy of calmy collecting maximum points for the number one driver the races will always be boring.

They can change this by getting Max an elite teammate. But they won't. Not their philosohy of racing.

So who was the clear 1 and 2 in 16 17 and 18 then. And in 17-21 at Mercedes?

Teams do this when they are on top, merc only put Russell in the car when it was no longer dominant. Before that they too preferred the 1-2 set-up as there is no reason for the team to spill points with an internal battle.

[dialtone]

Albon about the tyres to F1TV:

Quote

It was amazing, the tyres this weekend have been... struggling, is the most diplomatic word to use. They increased the minimum pressures again last night.

I mean, the tyres last literally four corners out of the pit lane. You feel really good through 2 and 3, and then they are gone again.

[The pressures are] so high it's just tearing the tyre up. Safety, safety, but it's painful.

We're putting so much [front] flap in the car, normally you take out flap for a racing car, but you just have to keep it in and deal with the oversteer.

Ridiculous tbh

It’s pure embarrassing that even with the sprint race in front, Pirelli waits until the next parc ferme to adjust tire pressure overnight. I’m not one to say their tires are bad, they are told to build them that way, but operational coordination is not too much to ask, changing pressure like that every time, even when technically you should do better is, imho, pathetic.

[stephen]

Norris is going to win a race this season, he is nearly getting there.

[SKYnRacing24]

Albon about the tyres to F1TV:

Quote

It was amazing, the tyres this weekend have been... struggling, is the most diplomatic word to use. They increased the minimum pressures again last night.

I mean, the tyres last literally four corners out of the pit lane. You feel really good through 2 and 3, and then they are gone again.

[The pressures are] so high it's just tearing the tyre up. Safety, safety, but it's painful.

We're putting so much [front] flap in the car, normally you take out flap for a racing car, but you just have to keep it in and deal with the oversteer.

Ridiculous tbh

It’s pure embarrassing that even with the sprint race in front, Pirelli waits until the next parc ferme to adjust tire pressure overnight. I’m not one to say their tires are bad, they are told to build them that way, but operational coordination is not too much to ask, changing pressure like that every time, even when technically you should do better is, imho, pathetic.

Nicely said my guy. I haven't really seen Pirelli mentioned in the " Fix F1" thread and imo we need another manufacture in F1 maybe even a tyre war. There incompetence would be clearer to see if that happened imo

[Sieper]

Norris is going to win a race this season, he is nearly getting there.

He just needs one track where they are almost competitive and then a bit of luck.

To me Norris is really a complete package. People say he is not a killer but I don’t believe he won’t fight nail and tooth when it is needed.

[organic]

Norris is going to win a race this season, he is nearly getting there.

He just needs one track where they are almost competitive and then a bit of luck.

To me Norris is really a complete package. People say he is not a killer but I don’t believe he won’t fight nail and tooth when it is needed.

Another wet qualifying where RB don't get their tyres working and where it's not easy to pass would work well for Lando. Could leave RB and Ferrari down the order. Tracks like Singapore, or perhaps even Miami and Imola.. maybe we dont have to wait long

[avantman]

Norris is going to win a race this season, he is nearly getting there.

he has never been closer than almost three years back in 2021. he hasn't come closer this year, no Idea why you believe something will change this year. mind you, prior to China, he has finished 2nd to Max 5 times already. and he wasn't really any closer today.