2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[LM10]

I agree with what you said that it's setup and aero config related. Obviously we can only speculate but my reply was to LM10 saying these two tracks were colder than usual, which is not the case.

A quick check: Spa last year actually had coldest track temperature since 2019 (not counting in 2021 as it was raining). So I don't know why exactly you've picked Spa 2023, but it's not really the best example.
What I mean with usual is that in the summer with the sun out the track temperatures will easily reach 40 or more °C. Cloudy weather independent of air temperature can significantly change the track temperature obviously.

As for Bahrain, it probably has the most abrasive track of all. Colder track temperature is welcome there. If it had been hotter this year others would have had a much harder time with deg relative to Ferrari.

Anyway, Vanja again posted a pretty interesting and detailed explanation of how there are many things to consider and there is way more into it than simply comparing track temperatures of different tracks.
When I'm talking about unusually cold track temperatures I also look at it from the perspective of a very different car behaviour from Ferrari this year. For myself personally it's almost a no brainer that Ferrari will be better on hotter tracks this season, qualifying included.

[dialtone]

They had the smallest wing all weekend, in the race they were clearly top without drs at 336 with LEC, while VER was 332 like NOR. If you look at the wing pics the difference is pretty big.

No car reached 336 km/h without DRS so that must be an error.

I’ll recheck later.

If drs is included though, you can take that speed with drs on, which still shows Ferrari with less load.

Check done, the distribution of top speed without DRS in each lap is basically:

NOR: 308
VER: 310
LEC: 312

There's a +/- of 2-3kph variance but the bulk of the laps (close to 50% or more) are in those top speeds when no DRS is in use. So I stand by my argument.

[AR3-GP]

No car reached 336 km/h without DRS so that must be an error.

I’ll recheck later.

If drs is included though, you can take that speed with drs on, which still shows Ferrari with less load.

Check done, the distribution of top speed without DRS in each lap is basically:

NOR: 308
VER: 310
LEC: 312

There's a +/- of 2-3kph variance but the bulk of the laps (close to 50% or more) are in those top speeds when no DRS is in use. So I stand by my argument.

I think it needs a more thorough comb because the tow on the backstraight is not negligible. Both drivers followed other cars down the back straight, but Leclerc many more times than Verstappen. Leclerc was in P8 or P9 or whatever at the start and there's a long slip tail with the cars ahead even when he didn't have DRS. Then after the Bottas safety car, Leclerc was getting the tow from Norris while being outside of DRS range.

Somewhat meaningless without a thorough review not to mention we have no idea what engine modes were in use. Verstappen was again, not really racing anyone for much of it. Leclerc was still in a race with Norris for a lot of it.

[Silent Storm]

I agree with what you said that it's setup and aero config related. Obviously we can only speculate but my reply was to LM10 saying these two tracks were colder than usual, which is not the case.

A quick check: Spa last year actually had coldest track temperature since 2019 (not counting in 2021 as it was raining). So I don't know why exactly you've picked Spa 2023, but it's not really the best example.
What I mean with usual is that in the summer with the sun out the track temperatures will easily reach 40 or more °C. Cloudy weather independent of air temperature can significantly change the track temperature obviously.

As for Bahrain, it probably has the most abrasive track of all. Colder track temperature is welcome there. If it had been hotter this year others would have had a much harder time with deg relative to Ferrari.

Anyway, Vanja again posted a pretty interesting and detailed explanation of how there are many things to consider and there is way more into it than simply comparing track temperatures of different tracks.
When I'm talking about unusually cold track temperatures I also look at it from the perspective of a very different car behaviour from Ferrari this year. For myself personally it's almost a no brainer that Ferrari will be better on hotter tracks this season, qualifying included.

I picked Spa to show that European tracks will have low track temperature too, there are other European tracks which have similar track temperature.

There were just 3 European tracks as I previously mentioned that reached 40° and most of the European tracks have around 28°to 33°

Vanja as always brought clarity to this subject and helped me understand more. Always nice to learn and see things from a different perspective.

[dialtone]

I’ll recheck later.

If drs is included though, you can take that speed with drs on, which still shows Ferrari with less load.

Check done, the distribution of top speed without DRS in each lap is basically:

NOR: 308
VER: 310
LEC: 312

There's a +/- of 2-3kph variance but the bulk of the laps (close to 50% or more) are in those top speeds when no DRS is in use. So I stand by my argument.

I think it needs a more thorough comb because the tow on the backstraight is not negligible. Both drivers followed other cars down the back straight, but Leclerc many more times than Verstappen. Leclerc was in P8 or P9 or whatever at the start and there's a long slip tail with the cars ahead even when he didn't have DRS. Then after the Bottas safety car, Leclerc was getting the tow from Norris while being outside of DRS range.

Somewhat meaningless without a thorough review not to mention we have no idea what engine modes were in use. Verstappen was again, not really racing anyone for much of it. Leclerc was still in a race with Norris for a lot of it.

The first lap from LEC in this analysis was lap 14. Again this is a distribution and I picked the most frequent speed, if a car spent 3-4 laps behind another that would be higher speed but not achieved frequently. This is a vastly more robust method than just using top speed in qualifying or race that has been widely accepted with no criticism until today.

[organic]

The wing hasn't changed all season and it's similar level to teams performing well on the track, so it can't be a factor in their setup issues this weekend

[jumpingfish]

Perhaps this was the effect of increased tire pressure? But everyone was in the same boat

[dialtone]

The wing hasn't changed all season and it's similar level to teams performing well on the track, so it can't be a factor in their setup issues this weekend

That’s just false. Please check Fabrega’s pics.

[dialtone]

The wing hasn't changed all season and it's similar level to teams performing well on the track, so it can't be a factor in their setup issues this weekend

You look at this:



with the most obvious difference in wings between Ferrari and RBR and think that the wings haven't changed?

c'mon man...

[organic]

The wing hasn't changed all season and it's similar level to teams performing well on the track, so it can't be a factor in their setup issues this weekend

That’s just false. Please check Fabrega’s pics.

Ferrari and RB are both using the same wings they used at Bahrain. Same applies to Merc and McLaren too

Ferrari have only debuted 1 rear wing spec in 2024 - the medium downforce wing. It is very versatile but still only the one wing. So they can't have gone too low on this aspect as suggested because they only have one choice.

Bahrain specs showing its the same choices at china as Bahrain everyone opting for medium df

[dialtone]

The wing hasn't changed all season and it's similar level to teams performing well on the track, so it can't be a factor in their setup issues this weekend

That’s just false. Please check Fabrega’s pics.

Ferrari and RB are both using the same wings they used at Bahrain. Same applies to Merc and McLaren too

Ferrari have only debuted 1 rear wing spec in 2024. So they can't have gone too low on the wing..

Never said Ferrari came with a different wing, just that they are less loaded than RBR.

[dialtone]

The wing hasn't changed all season and it's similar level to teams performing well on the track, so it can't be a factor in their setup issues this weekend

That’s just false. Please check Fabrega’s pics.

Ferrari and RB are both using the same wings they used at Bahrain. Same applies to Merc and McLaren too

Ferrari have only debuted 1 rear wing spec in 2024 - the medium downforce wing. It is very versatile but still only the one wing. So they can't have gone too low on this aspect as suggested because they only have one choice.

Bahrain specs showing its the same choices at china as Bahrain everyone opting for medium df

Each track is different, the compromise that worked in Bahrain clearly didn’t work in China. This wing was good enough for first 4 races but China needed more loaded, other teams used 2 wing specs so far, Ferrari one, and the compromise didn’t work here as Ferrari was too low winged for the need of the track. Top speed shows there was an advantage there but miniscule compared to the loss in s1.

Result of attempting cost savings or bad expectations for China.

[Vanja #66]

They had the smallest wing all weekend, in the race they were clearly top without drs at 336 with LEC, while VER was 332 like NOR. If you look at the wing pics the difference is pretty big.

It's the same it's been since Bahrain, including the same beam wing as Bahrain and Suzuka

Suzuka



China



Aero wasn't the problem, tyre temp was, as confirmed by the team.

[dialtone]

They had the smallest wing all weekend, in the race they were clearly top without drs at 336 with LEC, while VER was 332 like NOR. If you look at the wing pics the difference is pretty big.

It's the same it's been since Bahrain, including the same beam wing as Bahrain and Suzuka

Suzuka



China



Aero wasn't the problem, tyre temp was, as confirmed by the team.

It can be the same wing and also the smallest at the same time. S1 performance was shocking and there is nothing like s1 china in any other track we’ve been at so far, so not sure why the car should behave the same.

Aero and tires works together.

[Xyz22]

Perhaps this was the effect of increased tire pressure? But everyone was in the same boat

Pirelli is unfortunately the worst tyre supplier in F1 history and we have no data on the potential impact of these late changes.

Hopefully they will --- off after the last contract.