2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[CouncilorIrissa]

Perhaps this was the effect of increased tire pressure? But everyone was in the same boat

Pirelli is unfortunately the worst tyre supplier in F1 history and we have no data on the potential impact of these late changes.

Hopefully they will --- off after the last contract.

Unlikely. They seem to be the only manufacturer willing to play along with FIA's shenanigans wrt to tyres.

[AR3-GP]

delete, okay I understand the point below.

[Xyz22]

In any event, i think what Dialtone is trying to say is that what happened today is a similar situation to Jeddah, but even worse.

If you recall in Jeddah they avoided bolting in a low DWF wing to have more load for keeping up the tyres temperature. We called that choice a conservative one at the time but maybe it was just the best compromise considering the limitations of the car.

In this situation, their standard wing (the one they have been using since the first race) wasn't enough for this track layout and the overall temperature. This is what Dialtone is trying to say, i think.

[dialtone]

delete, okay I understand the point below.

I’m excluding plenty of laps, any lap with DRS is out and most of laps in which LEC was near another car he was in DRS. There’s maybe 20-25 laps total for LEC. In both the stretches you mentioned the speed of LEC has the same distribution and top speed.

What is so hard to believe in having the smallest wing and best top speed? Are you not satisfied unless RBR has the top of everything, even useless stuff like this? Your motivation to always be contrarian is very tiring.

[dialtone]

In any event, i think what Dialtone is trying to say is that what happened today is a similar situation to Jeddah, but even worse.

If you recall in Jeddah they avoided bolting in a low DWF wing to have more load for keeping up the tyres temperature. We called that choice a conservative one at the time but maybe it was just the best compromise considering the limitations of the car.

In this situation, their standard wing (the one they have been using since the first race) wasn't enough for this track layout and the overall temperature. This is what Dialtone is trying to say, i think.

Exactly.

[Vanja #66]

In this situation, their standard wing (the one they have been using since the first race) wasn't enough for this track layout and the overall temperature. This is what Dialtone is trying to say, i think.

So why was Bahrain/Suzuka spec enough for McLaren? Like Ferrari, they didn't change anything on their car and the Shanghai layout was never supposed to work for them - lots of long slow corners and only 1 high-speed. How come it did work if there was no change to their aero?

[Xyz22]

In this situation, their standard wing (the one they have been using since the first race) wasn't enough for this track layout and the overall temperature. This is what Dialtone is trying to say, i think.

So why was Bahrain/Suzuka spec enough for McLaren? Like Ferrari, they didn't change anything on their car and the Shanghai layout was never supposed to work for them - lots of long slow corners and only 1 high-speed. How come it did work if there was no change to their aero?

I'm absolutely not competent enough on this matter to even try answering the question. I'm not even saying that Dialtone was correct (i have absolutely no idea), just tried to explain in different terms because i thought some didn't understand exactly what he was trying to say.

[AR3-GP]

In this situation, their standard wing (the one they have been using since the first race) wasn't enough for this track layout and the overall temperature. This is what Dialtone is trying to say, i think.

So why was Bahrain/Suzuka spec enough for McLaren? Like Ferrari, they didn't change anything on their car and the Shanghai layout was never supposed to work for them - lots of long slow corners and only 1 high-speed. How come it did work if there was no change to their aero?

I also can't answer this, but why Mclaren's car works isn't going to tell us about how Ferrari's car works. There's no correlation. They are different cars.

[LM10]

In this situation, their standard wing (the one they have been using since the first race) wasn't enough for this track layout and the overall temperature. This is what Dialtone is trying to say, i think.

So why was Bahrain/Suzuka spec enough for McLaren? Like Ferrari, they didn't change anything on their car and the Shanghai layout was never supposed to work for them - lots of long slow corners and only 1 high-speed. How come it did work if there was no change to their aero?

I'm absolutely not competent enough on this matter to even try answering the question. I'm not even saying that Dialtone was correct (i have absolutely no idea), just tried to explain in different terms because i thought some didn't understand exactly what he was trying to say.

The answer to that question is tyre temps.

[dialtone]

In this situation, their standard wing (the one they have been using since the first race) wasn't enough for this track layout and the overall temperature. This is what Dialtone is trying to say, i think.

So why was Bahrain/Suzuka spec enough for McLaren? Like Ferrari, they didn't change anything on their car and the Shanghai layout was never supposed to work for them - lots of long slow corners and only 1 high-speed. How come it did work if there was no change to their aero?

To me that seems pretty self-evident.

Simplifying greatly, say DF is measured in points from 0-100.

China might be a track that works fine between 60-80, Bahrain between 50-70.

Ferrari showed up with 60, RBR and MCL with 70.

The net result is you are cranking one of your setup levers to the extreme (DF) which is going to limit how much you have to play with the others to find a compromise. And this makes setup harder to balance since you need at least that 60 to go around the lap.

[Vanja #66]

I'm absolutely not competent enough on this matter to even try answering the question. I'm not even saying that Dialtone was correct (i have absolutely no idea), just tried to explain in different terms because i thought some didn't understand exactly what he was trying to say.

I got what dialtone was thinking and so do others. My point is that insufficient aero isn't the reason, otherwise the car slides and deg gets worse. There was no tyre saving to extend, Leclerc ran the race to the limit of car's capabilities, while Sainz somehow looked compromised but I didn't see yet what was the reason.

I also can't answer this, but why Mclaren's car works isn't going to tell us about how Ferrari's car works. There's no correlation. They are different cars.

Luckily, tyres work the same

The net result is you are cranking one of your setup levers to the extreme (DF) which is going to limit how much you have to play with the others to find a compromise. And this makes setup harder to balance since you need at least that 60 to go around the lap.

Answered to Xyz above, when you lack aero load you slide and deg when you push. When you push and are at the limit but slower than expected, you lack tyre grip because you're under the temp window

We've seen the opposite happen to Ferrari a lot last year and these situations happening to RB last year, but they always had the most downforce so they were able to offset occasional lack of tyre grip. Remember Silverstone, when McLaren was brilliant in colder weather and was able to extend M as long as Max, then switched to Hards and still made them work even when Max switched to Softs only to finish a few seconds off Max.

[dialtone]

The net result is you are cranking one of your setup levers to the extreme (DF) which is going to limit how much you have to play with the others to find a compromise. And this makes setup harder to balance since you need at least that 60 to go around the lap.

Answered to Xyz above, when you lack aero load you slide and deg when you push. When you push and are at the limit but slower than expected, you lack tyre grip because you're under the temp window

We've seen the opposite happen to Ferrari a lot last year and these situations happening to RB last year, but they always had the most downforce so they were able to offset occasional lack of tyre grip. Remember Silverstone, when McLaren was brilliant in colder weather and was able to extend M as long as Max, then switched to Hards and still made them work even when Max switched to Softs only to finish a few seconds off Max.

I feel like we agree so not sure why you disagree .

Ferrari here was just plain slow even with LEC at the limit, so no sliding around when you lose 0.4 in 3 corners.

You can compensate tire grip by increasing wing, if you have it. Ferrari came here thinking it’s front limited but after the sprint it became much more balanced and their setup window was off.

If you can’t go fast, because your wings don’t compensate, you can’t put temperature in tires and they stay cold.

[Joel709]

I feel Ferrari have made a good step in their tyre deg but this has negatively impacted them in many ways. If you can’t warm them up up and only qualify in 6th then you’re gonna do a good bit of burning with the following and battling with cars infront. You also have a few laps where they need to warm up anyway.

However, I do not think it’s a silver bullet where the track is warm and suddenly Ferrari are dominant, yes they’ll be better but Australia is an outlier at present, if they can do the same at another couple of hot circuits then it becomes evidence but if their cars hopes rely on temperature then it’s going to be a very up and down season, especially if they encounter much rain.

[leblanc]

The net result is you are cranking one of your setup levers to the extreme (DF) which is going to limit how much you have to play with the others to find a compromise. And this makes setup harder to balance since you need at least that 60 to go around the lap.

Answered to Xyz above, when you lack aero load you slide and deg when you push. When you push and are at the limit but slower than expected, you lack tyre grip because you're under the temp window

We've seen the opposite happen to Ferrari a lot last year and these situations happening to RB last year, but they always had the most downforce so they were able to offset occasional lack of tyre grip. Remember Silverstone, when McLaren was brilliant in colder weather and was able to extend M as long as Max, then switched to Hards and still made them work even when Max switched to Softs only to finish a few seconds off Max.

I feel like we agree so not sure why you disagree .

Ferrari here was just plain slow even with LEC at the limit, so no sliding around when you lose 0.4 in 3 corners.

You can compensate tire grip by increasing wing, if you have it. Ferrari came here thinking it’s front limited but after the sprint it became much more balanced and their setup window was off.

If you can’t go fast, because your wings don’t compensate, you can’t put temperature in tires and they stay cold.

The trade-off with increased drag may have been even slower in simulation and on-track.

[dialtone]

That’s a valid point but that they are still on a single wing to me leans more towards cost savings.