How important is math knowledge in F1 engineering?

[coaster]

Its pretty important, in 2011 I had job interview at Cosworth in Northampton.
I was focussed on wanting to be in f1, the interviewer counselled me with this "we are looking to find cnc operators to machine engine blocks for the mclaren road car"
"Our f1 program is staffed by our engineering interns and not open to normal machine operators".
Sooo, to press a green button on an f1 part being made requires a degree, even though they are hugely overskilled for that role, thats how it goes, learn good math, get a degree, be accepted into the f1 program.

[mzivtins]

Its pretty important, in 2011 I had job interview at Cosworth in Northampton.
I was focussed on wanting to be in f1, the interviewer counselled me with this "we are looking to find cnc operators to machine engine blocks for the mclaren road car"
"Our f1 program is staffed by our engineering interns and not open to normal machine operators".
Sooo, to press a green button on an f1 part being made requires a degree, even though they are hugely overskilled for that role, thats how it goes, learn good math, get a degree, be accepted into the f1 program.

Thats not what the difference is:

In machine work, with CNC, on tested and delivered technology such as a road car component, the CNC operator must understand the tooling, and machine operation.

When you have CNC to create tooling of parts from design you expect the engineers to establish project wide features.

A good example is one engineer may create a calculation within design software for everyone to use. This may be something like tortional strength calculation that can then be applied and calculated in realtime in design software (specific to a material).

For parts that are just produced, all that has been taken car of already by and engineer and locked in as an agreed spec (Road cars).

No CNC operator in F1 just presses a button and watches a machine.

[coaster]

mzivtins i totally agree with you on a fundamental basis, but the interviewer was explaining company policy.
F1 can cherry pick talent, alot of people could design like newey, but only 10 people get that chance.
Many overskilled people are 'waiting in the wings' doing lesser roles, its just so competitive and its the nature of the game that is F1.

[Fluido]

This video explain why you dont have to be excellent in math to be good engineer(this is one branch of physics), maybe this is answer how some engineers had problem with math at university but become genius F1 designers.

[Greg Locock]

That's right, you don't have to be an absolute genius at maths to be an engineer. To get into the sort of uni that will get you into F1 (say Southhampton Bristol Cambridge Imperial for aero) you just need an A or A* in maths A level, which about 40% of maths A level students get, and preferably Further Maths as well. That's not genius level. But you won't be the one at the back of the class sticking a pencil up your nose either.

[Fluido]

That's right, you don't have to be an absolute genius at maths to be an engineer. To get into the sort of uni that will get you into F1 (say Southhampton Bristol Cambridge Imperial for aero) you just need an A or A* in maths A level, which about 40% of maths A level students get, and preferably Further Maths as well. That's not genius level. But you won't be the one at the back of the class sticking a pencil up your nose either.

AN wrote in book that he has problems with math at university, but he is genius engineer. Does this mean that math is not so important in F1 engineering? How do you explain this?

[Tommy Cookers]

Does this mean that math is not so important in F1 engineering? How do you explain this?

mathematics (and physics) should be 'on tap' - not 'on top'


the physics-loving 'experts' were wrong on exhaust turbines and wrong on ocean waves ....
and particle physicists & cosmologists are just crooks

somewhat parallel, the UK now graduates 54% of its population churn
a tenfold increase in the few decades since eg top vehicle designers weren't graduates
(60% of that 54% is female)

though we still think that building and even bridge design is an art done by types wielding bits of charcoal
and officially classify story-writing as the 'creative industry'
we shall be saved as energy systems are to be designed by elected politicians (or Bill Gates's cat)

[Fluido]

the physics-loving 'experts' were wrong on exhaust turbines and wrong on ocean waves ....
and particle physicists & cosmologists are just crooks

?

[TimW]

AN wrote in book that he has problems with math at university, but he is genius engineer. Does this mean that math is not so important in F1 engineering? How do you explain this?

I had problems with math at university, although I am good at math. My main issue was that solving math problems without context could just not keep my attention. It was the form, not the content. If your mind keeps drifting off, even during exams, that is not really helpful.
But math is an essential tool in an engineer's toolbox. Better tools make you a better engineer.

[Fluido]

I had problems with math at university, although I am good at math
My main issue was that solving math problems without context could just not keep my attention.

You had problems in math but you are good in math, that dont make sense..

Why does it matter if you add apples, watts or nothing? you can always imagine that you are adding newtons

Maybe is just turn out that math is hardest subject at engineering study?

[hollus]

Newey gained a first class honours degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics from the University of Southampton in 1980

I am going to go with his level of math being awesome, based on that.
That in a class where every single one of them was in “the 1%” regarding math, Adrian might have been in the bottom half? I have no problem buying that, but it still leaves him in the 1%.

I studied chemistry (20th century!), went on to crystallography, biochemistry and enzymology.
And basically I’ve spent the last 25 years of my life using a tiny fraction of all the math I once learnt… and wishing I had studied, and remembered, way more math. It would have been so useful sooo many times. Excel did though patch over most of it most of the time. Patch. The understanding of the math you are patching over is invaluable, but of course, not patching over is even better.

That Adrian can “jump over” CFD has a lot to do with him understanding the math behind CFD, most likely.

[SiLo]

Engineering is applied physics and problem solving

And Physics is applied maths!

[Fluido]

Newey gained a first class honours degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics from the University of Southampton in 1980

I am going to go with his level of math being awesome, based on that.
That in a class where every single one of them was in “the 1%” regarding math, Adrian might have been in the bottom half? I have no problem buying that, but it still leaves him in the 1%.

I studied chemistry (20th century!), went on to crystallography, biochemistry and enzymology.
And basically I’ve spent the last 25 years of my life using a tiny fraction of all the math I once learnt… and wishing I had studied, and remembered, way more math. It would have been so useful sooo many times. Excel did though patch over most of it most of the time. Patch. The understanding of the math you are patching over is invaluable, but of course, not patching over is even better.

That Adrian can “jump over” CFD has a lot to do with him understanding the math behind CFD, most likely.

First class honours degree in UK is highest grade, so it turn out he was great student.

Math behind CFD are differential equations for every node in the mesh, that you cant solve by hand..

[TimW]

You had problems in math but you are good in math, that dont make sense..

It only doesn't if you judge math skills by university grades.

Why does it matter if you add apples, watts or nothing? you can always imagine that you are adding newtons

Studying apples is interesting.

Maybe is just turn out that math is hardest subject at engineering study?

It is not the most interesting topic to engineering students, otherwise they would want to be mathematicians.


Maybe clearer: I find things interesting until I described the problem in a mathematical model. Solving that model I would gladly leave to someone else.

[Fluido]

"First Class Honours, referred to as a "first", is the highest honours classification and indicates high academic achievement. Historically, First Class Honours were uncommon, but since 2019 a first has been awarded to nearly thirty percent of graduates of British universities.

In the early 1990s, First Class Honours went to about 7% of graduates, or about one student in 15.[2] ˝