DRS isn't the only cause of blow by passing

[TeamKoolGreen]

DRS keeps getting all the blame for "overfakes" as some people call them. I agree that a lot of passing looks too easy for the faster car.

But the hybrid system is just as much to blame for this as the DRS, if not more. The slightly faster car just follows behind to regenerate electric power. And it can regen more than the slower car. Then when accumulates a power advantage , it just deploys that power and blows by the car in front. And the slower car is depleting power to stay ahead. And this is why cars blow past each other. But everyone sees that DRS flap open and blames that.

I think this is also a huge contributor to the domination we seen in the Mercedes era and now.

All the available electric power should be the same for each car. And the power could be stored for a set push to pass deployment that is the same for everyone. This way , Max wouldn't have any more electric power than anyone else. Then we would see closer racing and harder passes. And DRS would just be there to even out the dirty air.

Some will argue that this is spec. But it isn't. If someone has a better ICE, they can still profit from that.

And this is set to get worse in 2026. 2026 might be worse domination than we've ever seen. Then what ?

This could also be why Moto GP doesn't have nearly the same issues of bad racing. Despite being a prototype series.

[Seanspeed]

It's mainly the DRS. Take away that and you dont get the same level of 'blowby' passing at all. Saving an engine boost for overtaking opportunities is nothing new in F1, really. And the lead car will absolutely be saving their power for defense in the obvious places, as well. So it balances out. There's no huge advantage to being a following car in this case. A slight one maybe, but nothing game changing.

I mean, we can literally just watch an onboard and see how much faster a car goes once they use DRS. It's very significant.

[TeamKoolGreen]

It's mainly the DRS. Take away that and you dont get the same level of 'blowby' passing at all. Saving an engine boost for overtaking opportunities is nothing new in F1, really. And the lead car will absolutely be saving their power for defense in the obvious places, as well. So it balances out. There's no huge advantage to being a following car in this case. A slight one maybe, but nothing game changing.

I mean, we can literally just watch an onboard and see how much faster a car goes once they use DRS. It's very significant.

No it doesn't balance out at all. The faster car can harvest more energy than the slower car while it is following. Because it is using less energy to go the same speed. It tops the battery and then blows past. It is shown in the data.

Tell me how a non hybrid F1 car can build up a burst of horsepower while following.

It has only been this way since hybrid

[Seanspeed]

No it doesn't balance out at all. The faster car can harvest more energy than the slower car while it is following. Because it is using less energy to go the same speed. It tops the battery and then blows past. It is shown in the data.

Tell me how a non hybrid F1 car can build up a burst of horsepower while following.

It has only been this way since hybrid

Again, this difference will be slight and not make any kind of huge impact on the effect of 'driveby' passing. If a driver is fast enough that they can gain any kind of significant harvesting advantage without loss of pace, they were gonna be able to pass easily no matter what.

'Overtaking modes' have been in F1 before hybrids, too. It's just a temporary cranking of the engine to peak/qualifying levels of horsepower. Something that is not sustainable, but is generally fine in short bursts.

[Hoffman900]

No it doesn't balance out at all. The faster car can harvest more energy than the slower car while it is following. Because it is using less energy to go the same speed. It tops the battery and then blows past. It is shown in the data.

Tell me how a non hybrid F1 car can build up a burst of horsepower while following.

It has only been this way since hybrid

Again, this difference will be slight and not make any kind of huge impact on the effect of 'driveby' passing. If a driver is fast enough that they can gain any kind of significant harvesting advantage without loss of pace, they were gonna be able to pass easily no matter what.

'Overtaking modes' have been in F1 before hybrids, too. It's just a temporary cranking of the engine to peak/qualifying levels of horsepower. Something that is not sustainable, but is generally fine in short bursts.

This. And to a lesser extent, it’s even easy to do on a vintage carbureted engine, you just run two ignition boxes and have a switch.

1980s F1 turbo cars had boost knobs on their steering wheels that the drivers could play with.

Kart drivers are always fiddling with the jetting and can do, to a lesser extent, some fiddling.

[TeamKoolGreen]

No it doesn't balance out at all. The faster car can harvest more energy than the slower car while it is following. Because it is using less energy to go the same speed. It tops the battery and then blows past. It is shown in the data.

Tell me how a non hybrid F1 car can build up a burst of horsepower while following.

It has only been this way since hybrid

Again, this difference will be slight and not make any kind of huge impact on the effect of 'driveby' passing. If a driver is fast enough that they can gain any kind of significant harvesting advantage without loss of pace, they were gonna be able to pass easily no matter what.

'Overtaking modes' have been in F1 before hybrids, too. It's just a temporary cranking of the engine to peak/qualifying levels of horsepower. Something that is not sustainable, but is generally fine in short bursts.

The faster car is simply saving energy because it is following a slower car. Slowing down earlier than it has to because it is being held up. It's physics

Jetting and all that stuff was done for minuscule gains. Not the same thing as discharging horsepower that you are storing up.

[Seanspeed]

The faster car is simply saving energy because it is following a slower car. Slowing down earlier than it has to because it is being held up. It's physics

Jetting and all that stuff was done for minuscule gains. Not the same thing as discharging horsepower that you are storing up.

Both cars will be recovering energy throughout the lap. The lead car will be trying to conserve more in areas where passing isn't possible, and then will use all they can in the obvious overtaking spots. The trailing car will be doing similar, and while they might be able to recover a bit more due to simply being faster, it's not gonna be some huge difference. And like I said, if the car is so much faster than it can actually harvest a lot more without losing any pace, then it was always going to be able to pass easy no matter what.

The effect of this overall will be negligible compared to something like DRS or having a large tire advantage or something.

[PlatinumZealot]

DRS keeps getting all the blame for "overfakes" as some people call them. I agree that a lot of passing looks too easy for the faster car.

But the hybrid system is just as much to blame for this as the DRS, if not more. The slightly faster car just follows behind to regenerate electric power. And it can regen more than the slower car. Then when accumulates a power advantage , it just deploys that power and blows by the car in front. And the slower car is depleting power to stay ahead. And this is why cars blow past each other. But everyone sees that DRS flap open and blames that.

I think this is also a huge contributor to the domination we seen in the Mercedes era and now.

All the available electric power should be the same for each car. And the power could be stored for a set push to pass deployment that is the same for everyone. This way , Max wouldn't have any more electric power than anyone else. Then we would see closer racing and harder passes. And DRS would just be there to even out the dirty air.

Some will argue that this is spec. But it isn't. If someone has a better ICE, they can still profit from that.

And this is set to get worse in 2026. 2026 might be worse domination than we've ever seen. Then what ?

This could also be why Moto GP doesn't have nearly the same issues of bad racing. Despite being a prototype series.

Don't agree with your logic there.
Brake regeneration and MGUH regeneration is much stronger at low speeds or decelerating when the engine is producing more power than it needs to put to the wheels. This is the perfect time, with areas of the track where the opponent finds it hard to pass, to regenerate batteries!

The battery power is not enough of a differential to pass when the other guy in front is using battery power to defend! So yeah DRS is the main reason. Add to that wind direction.

[TeamKoolGreen]

In the last lap of Imola, Max's battery was at 30% and Norris's was at 60%. All Norris needed was a couple more laps. And when he caught him , he'd blow not just because of DRS but because hed deploying that 50% electric power advantage

[TeamKoolGreen]

DRS keeps getting all the blame for "overfakes" as some people call them. I agree that a lot of passing looks too easy for the faster car.

But the hybrid system is just as much to blame for this as the DRS, if not more. The slightly faster car just follows behind to regenerate electric power. And it can regen more than the slower car. Then when accumulates a power advantage , it just deploys that power and blows by the car in front. And the slower car is depleting power to stay ahead. And this is why cars blow past each other. But everyone sees that DRS flap open and blames that.

I think this is also a huge contributor to the domination we seen in the Mercedes era and now.

All the available electric power should be the same for each car. And the power could be stored for a set push to pass deployment that is the same for everyone. This way , Max wouldn't have any more electric power than anyone else. Then we would see closer racing and harder passes. And DRS would just be there to even out the dirty air.

Some will argue that this is spec. But it isn't. If someone has a better ICE, they can still profit from that.

And this is set to get worse in 2026. 2026 might be worse domination than we've ever seen. Then what ?

This could also be why Moto GP doesn't have nearly the same issues of bad racing. Despite being a prototype series.

Don't agree with your logic there.
Brake regeneration and MGUH regeneration is much stronger at low speeds or decelerating when the engine is producing more power than it needs to put to the wheels. This is the perfect time, with areas of the track where the opponent finds it hard to pass, to regenerate batteries!

The battery power is not enough of a differential to pass when the other guy in front is using battery power to defend! So yeah DRS is the main reason. Add to that wind direction.

The faster car always has more battery in reserve. Why is that ? In Imola, Norris had 60%, Max had 30% in the last 5 laps of the race

[Cuky]

In the last lap of Imola, Max's battery was at 30% and Norris's was at 60%. All Norris needed was a couple more laps. And when he caught him , he'd blow not just because of DRS but because hed deploying that 50% electric power advantage

That doesn't matter really as peak power that MGU-K provides to the rear wheels is capped. Also, Verstappen just had to not deploy over the lap and save it for the main straight to cover the attack. What was holding Verstappen back is that his tires were gone and he would loose on traction from the final corner and Norris would be able to pass. Speaking of that, Norris wasn't closing much on straight without DRS, he was mostly closing in first two chicanes. He would then loose time in Sector 2 where two of the straights are and get some on the exit of final two corners.

[chrisc90]

In the last lap of Imola, Max's battery was at 30% and Norris's was at 60%. All Norris needed was a couple more laps. And when he caught him , he'd blow not just because of DRS but because hed deploying that 50% electric power advantage

Such a stupid graphic. I'd be honestly surprised if it is remotely accurate.

[PlatinumZealot]

DRS keeps getting all the blame for "overfakes" as some people call them. I agree that a lot of passing looks too easy for the faster car.

But the hybrid system is just as much to blame for this as the DRS, if not more. The slightly faster car just follows behind to regenerate electric power. And it can regen more than the slower car. Then when accumulates a power advantage , it just deploys that power and blows by the car in front. And the slower car is depleting power to stay ahead. And this is why cars blow past each other. But everyone sees that DRS flap open and blames that.

I think this is also a huge contributor to the domination we seen in the Mercedes era and now.

All the available electric power should be the same for each car. And the power could be stored for a set push to pass deployment that is the same for everyone. This way , Max wouldn't have any more electric power than anyone else. Then we would see closer racing and harder passes. And DRS would just be there to even out the dirty air.

Some will argue that this is spec. But it isn't. If someone has a better ICE, they can still profit from that.

And this is set to get worse in 2026. 2026 might be worse domination than we've ever seen. Then what ?

This could also be why Moto GP doesn't have nearly the same issues of bad racing. Despite being a prototype series.

Don't agree with your logic there.
Brake regeneration and MGUH regeneration is much stronger at low speeds or decelerating when the engine is producing more power than it needs to put to the wheels. This is the perfect time, with areas of the track where the opponent finds it hard to pass, to regenerate batteries!

The battery power is not enough of a differential to pass when the other guy in front is using battery power to defend! So yeah DRS is the main reason. Add to that wind dir7ection.

The faster car always has more battery in reserve. Why is that ? In Imola, Norris had 60%, Max had 30% in the last 5 laps of the race

You took it out of context there. My point still stands.

You were blaming the hybrid system for easy passing. And I said nope, it cancels out because the defending driver has battery to
defend. I was never comparing who had more battery whether attacker or defender.

Max may have had less battery than Norris.. But he was never at Zero. He had 30% remaining. His engineer said he can charge more if needed but he will start to clip on the straights. Norris never blowed past Max did he?

Other points.

This is a battle on a high speed track with a very long straight and medium level braking points.

Three.. This track is over 70% throttle.





Lando had DRS behind Max. And Max had to use his battery to defend. It's stands that Lando will always have more battery in that scenario.


Once the battle starts.. On a track with long straights especially, the car behind will get more chance to save batteries because of slip stream.

But it does not mean the car in front can charge his batteries and use it to defend. Which Max was doing quite well in the race.

[TeamKoolGreen]

In the last lap of Imola, Max's battery was at 30% and Norris's was at 60%. All Norris needed was a couple more laps. And when he caught him , he'd blow not just because of DRS but because hed deploying that 50% electric power advantage

That doesn't matter really as peak power that MGU-K provides to the rear wheels is capped. Also, Verstappen just had to not deploy over the lap and save it for the main straight to cover the attack. What was holding Verstappen back is that his tires were gone and he would loose on traction from the final corner and Norris would be able to pass. Speaking of that, Norris wasn't closing much on straight without DRS, he was mostly closing in first two chicanes. He would then loose time in Sector 2 where two of the straights are and get some on the exit of final two corners.

Max was depleting his power to stay ahead. And if the race was any longer, the point of Max with full battery depletion and Norris with a charged battery would have been the point that the pass happened.

It is no coincidence that the slower car in front always has a lower charged battery that the faster car chasing. Its almost never the other way around.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Don't agree with your logic there.
Brake regeneration and MGUH regeneration is much stronger at low speeds or decelerating when the engine is producing more power than it needs to put to the wheels. This is the perfect time, with areas of the track where the opponent finds it hard to pass, to regenerate batteries!

The battery power is not enough of a differential to pass when the other guy in front is using battery power to defend! So yeah DRS is the main reason. Add to that wind dir7ection.

The faster car always has more battery in reserve. Why is that ? In Imola, Norris had 60%, Max had 30% in the last 5 laps of the race

You took it out of context there. My point still stands.

You were blaming the hybrid system for easy passing. And I said nope, it cancels out because the defending driver has battery to
defend. I was never comparing who had more battery whether attacker or defender.

Max may have had less battery than Norris.. But he was never at Zero. He had 30% remaining. His engineer said he can charge more if needed but he will start to clip on the straights. Norris never blowed past Max did he?

Other points.

This is a battle on a high speed track with a very long straight and medium level braking points.

Three.. This track is over 70% throttle.

https://media.formula1.com/image/upload ... preview-en



Lando had DRS behind Max. And Max had to use his battery to defend. It's stands that Lando will always have more battery in that scenario.


Once the battle starts.. On a track with long straights especially, the car behind will get more chance to save batteries because of slip stream.

But it does not mean the car in front can charge his batteries and use it to defend. Which Max was doing quite well in the race.

The highlighted is what I am saying. So how could anyone reason that the electric power advantage accumulated by the faster following car isn't an advantage when the point of the pass comes ?

The faster car is simply faster already. And then it is harvesting energy more efficiently which means not only is it faster, it has more electric power , and then DRS. And then everyone just blames DRS when the fly by pass happens.

It isn't just a wash. If it was, why is the slower leading car always carrying less electrical energy than the following one ? Why isn't it 50/50 ? If it was 50/50 then you'd be right. But it never is.