2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[mwillems]

@Vanja Yeah I got your humour and knew what you meant. Was just following and elaborating a little on why they'd consider holding him.

But there won't be that many Newey cars left, it'd suck big time that's what they do.

[Just_a_fan]

he was going to be in gardening leave till he was 200 years old

I honestly half expected we will get to read how RB can outright ban him to join another F1 team in perpetuity...

Not under English Law they can't...

[Joel709]

I expect Max to be lining up options for the 2026 season unless he gets some encouraging news. It all depends if Newey is the only one, if you start losing the likes of Wache as well then I’d expect a bit of an exodus.

I’d be surprised if red bull allowed themselves to be negotiated to allow Newey freedom to start at the start of a new reg cycle, although hearing news as well that he’s just sick of F1 and doesn’t like the look of the new reg cycle, it’s anyone’s guess right now

[epo]

Let's look on the other drivers for a moment.
The greatest gift Max can give them is a swap. George Russel doesn't even have to care about facing Max if he can swap with him. Sainz would also love to nestle into a redbull seat fitting while Max and entourage wander off to Brackley only to find out he made a fatal blunder.
In fact.. if were a team Principal I would low ball Max on the price if I sniff the desperation to leave. Why offer Max 50 million per year, when they guy is desperate to leave the best car? He clearly lost his mind and turned ascetic. He must not need much money then! 10 million per year to drive for Williams, or 15 for a W16 seat. Take it or stay at Redbull
Max cannot win right now if he is looking to leave. He must want to stay at Redbull for the seller's power to increase. Simple economics.

“If I were” “lowball max” “sniff the desperation” “desperate to leave” “the guy” “lost his mind” “ascetic”. Is it possible to take a bigger dump on him? I wouldn’t know how. To me this is the worst part of Internet forums. That people feel at liberty to just dump their frustration on others without any consideration to the public they are dumping on. To me it is very wrong and you won’t see me do this to Lewis on the Merc thread.

I think you are reading too emotionally. I have no frustrations with Max.
It was using figurative speech, a little satire and hypophora if that's the best description, to illustrate what thoughts could go through the mind of a team principal trying to understand and figure out why a driver in the best car, getting paid 75 million per year, would bail out on the best team that is still improving, and come to his doorstep for a drive.

Does it make sense to you what is being reported? Let's be honest, what is the logic in leaving Redbull?

And if he approaches another team today, what would they consider before signing him if he is not a free agent?

They can offer him less, because his long term redbull contract ironically adds stability to the market. Max is not going anywhere until 2028 and It has to be paid off by the new team to break it, leaving less money to pay Max, or if Max has a get out clause, he likely cannot jump to the top 3 teams right away without disturbing other existing driver contracts. So there is not much leverage for him right now, and a Principal would be aware of this and be able to offer much less than Redbull. The only place I see paying him more is Aston Martin and they have Alonso and Lance.

I personally don't think Max is leaving redbull. But if he truly is planning to leave, some amount of desperation must be present (which I don't think he is). Either by him or his dad.

Yes you do, I've been here a long time just reading and seeing your post, just stay calm brother really. Max just want to have a fast car and nice people around him, all the other stuff is done by his manager or dad. Max doesn't like politics ofc he likes records but in the end is he needs to motivation or he is out. There is no desperation, and he has leverage you just see him as the biggest rival of Lewis so who is desperate Let the guys decide themself and show it on the track.

[KimiRai]

I wonder how many Max fans watched F1 when Newey was transferring from Macca to RB, how it went, how much trouble it was for both parties and why Newey deserves to be treated with highest honours after everything he helped RB with. The only fair thing now would be to release him asap and forego any gardening leave, but maybe RB catering is even better this year

Of course Vanja would want Newey released asap without any gardening leave

[Joel709]

he was going to be in gardening leave till he was 200 years old

I honestly half expected we will get to read how RB can outright ban him to join another F1 team in perpetuity...

I wonder how many Max fans watched F1 when Newey was transferring from Macca to RB, how it went, how much trouble it was for both parties and why Newey deserves to be treated with highest honours after everything he helped RB with. The only fair thing now would be to release him asap and forego any gardening leave, but maybe RB catering is even better this year

If I was a High executive person at Coke and had access to the secret formula do you reckon they’d let me just go wonder into Pepsi the next day?

[Dunlay]

Red Bull: Separation from Newey is through

Rumors of Adrian Newey's separation from Red Bull recently caused a stir.
Now the departure is to become official.

Ralf Bach | April 30, 2024 , 10:27 am

It is to become official today: Red Bull wants to publish a statement confirming the departure of star designer Adrian Newey.
F1-Insider learned this from sources close to Newey from his adopted home in South Africa.

.
https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-adrian- ... ari-63078/

Did it become official "today" (Yesterday)? -Sources close to Newey.

F1-insider is as bad as TheJudge13 for peddling clickbait news. It seems they were punting on the eventuality to happen today, which hasn't yet. Just like Horner was supposed to have been fired in February, well before the launch of the car.

[ringo]

“If I were” “lowball max” “sniff the desperation” “desperate to leave” “the guy” “lost his mind” “ascetic”. Is it possible to take a bigger dump on him? I wouldn’t know how. To me this is the worst part of Internet forums. That people feel at liberty to just dump their frustration on others without any consideration to the public they are dumping on. To me it is very wrong and you won’t see me do this to Lewis on the Merc thread.

I think you are reading too emotionally. I have no frustrations with Max.
It was using figurative speech, a little satire and hypophora if that's the best description, to illustrate what thoughts could go through the mind of a team principal trying to understand and figure out why a driver in the best car, getting paid 75 million per year, would bail out on the best team that is still improving, and come to his doorstep for a drive.

Does it make sense to you what is being reported? Let's be honest, what is the logic in leaving Redbull?

And if he approaches another team today, what would they consider before signing him if he is not a free agent?

They can offer him less, because his long term redbull contract ironically adds stability to the market. Max is not going anywhere until 2028 and It has to be paid off by the new team to break it, leaving less money to pay Max, or if Max has a get out clause, he likely cannot jump to the top 3 teams right away without disturbing other existing driver contracts. So there is not much leverage for him right now, and a Principal would be aware of this and be able to offer much less than Redbull. The only place I see paying him more is Aston Martin and they have Alonso and Lance.

I personally don't think Max is leaving redbull. But if he truly is planning to leave, some amount of desperation must be present (which I don't think he is). Either by him or his dad.

Yes you do, I've been here a long time just reading and seeing your post, just stay calm brother really. Max just want to have a fast car and nice people around him, all the other stuff is done by his manager or dad. Max doesn't like politics ofc he likes records but in the end is he needs to motivation or he is out. There is no desperation, and he has leverage you just see him as the biggest rival of Lewis so who is desperate Let the guys decide themself and show it on the track.

Your post contradicts itself. You are agreeing with me about Max wanting a fast car.
The rest of what you wrote doesnt agree with joining a slower team in disarray which is Mercedes. They can't even get their pit stops right. Those lovely 2.1s stops will now be 3.2s.
You don't know what you have until it's gons they say.
Max is not Lewis biggest rival by the way. Lewis is in a different generation. His rivals have long retired. Alonso is maybe his true rival overall.
Max is in league with Lando, Charles, Carlos, Ocon, Oscar. The fresh guys.

[Wouter]

Red Bull: Separation from Newey is through

Rumors of Adrian Newey's separation from Red Bull recently caused a stir.
Now the departure is to become official.

Ralf Bach | April 30, 2024 , 10:27 am

It is to become official today: Red Bull wants to publish a statement confirming the departure of star designer Adrian Newey.
F1-Insider learned this from sources close to Newey from his adopted home in South Africa.

.
https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-adrian- ... ari-63078/

.
Did it become official "today" (Yesterday)? -Sources close to Newey.

F1-insider is as bad as TheJudge13 for peddling clickbait news. It seems they were punting on the eventuality to happen today, which hasn't yet. Just like Horner was supposed to have been fired in February, well before the launch of the car.

.
The intention was to announce it yesterday, but since it was the anniversary of the death of Roland Ratzenberger
and today of Ayrton Senna, it was postponed until tomorrow out of respect.

[Vanja #66]

Not under English Law they can't...

It was a continuation of dialtone's sarcasm

Of course Vanja would want Newey released asap without any gardening leave

Like I said, they owe him as much. Without him, 2010-2013 would be Alonso/Ferrari dominance and Red Bull would likely have pulled out of the sport early in hybrid era. Max would now be a Mercedes driver, Hamilton an 8-time champ and retired and Ferrari would be dominating again.

[Dunlay]

.
https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-adrian- ... ari-63078/

.
Did it become official "today" (Yesterday)? -Sources close to Newey.

F1-insider is as bad as TheJudge13 for peddling clickbait news. It seems they were punting on the eventuality to happen today, which hasn't yet. Just like Horner was supposed to have been fired in February, well before the launch of the car.

.
The intention was to announce it yesterday, but since it was the anniversary of the death of Roland Ratzenberger
and today of Ayrton Senna, it was postponed until tomorrow out of respect.

I guess F1-insider didn't keep a decent "F1 events of Significance" calendar.

[Unc1eM0nty]

Ironic that this team created such a dominant car with such an advantage on track, but yet iis n such turmoil off it.

They really have hit the self destruct button.

To me this makes Horners position untenable, it's one thing to fight off his accusations and put a spin on it, but in another league when it causes a key figure to leave and put the future of the team in peril.

[f1isgood]

Ironic that this team created such a dominant car with such an advantage on track, but yet iis n such turmoil off it.

They really have hit the self destruct button.

To me this makes Horners position untenable, it's one thing to fight off his accusations and put a spin on it, but in another league when it causes a key figure to leave and put the future of the team in peril.

I don't think he's going anywhere. He survived the leaks from the Austrian camp and even back then the rumors were that Newey will leave. Verstappen will have to stick around till 2025 end at the very least and if he is sensible would wait till 2026 to decide where to move as a spot might potentially open up at Ferrari (assuming they're the team to beat) or even Mercedes.

What will be interesting to see is if Newey is able to take senior staff with him. Reports so far indicate Newey has been unhappy that Horner credited others in the team and not him.

[f1isgood]

.
Did it become official "today" (Yesterday)? -Sources close to Newey.

F1-insider is as bad as TheJudge13 for peddling clickbait news. It seems they were punting on the eventuality to happen today, which hasn't yet. Just like Horner was supposed to have been fired in February, well before the launch of the car.

.
The intention was to announce it yesterday, but since it was the anniversary of the death of Roland Ratzenberger
and today of Ayrton Senna, it was postponed until tomorrow out of respect.

I guess F1-insider didn't keep a decent "F1 events of Significance" calendar.

[venkyhere]

Some irrevocable facts :

- Adrian Newey is a supreme F1 designer, with a very high success rate.
- Max Verstappen is a supreme F1 driver, likely the generational talent of his age group.
- Christian Horner is a great team builder and organizer.
- Helmut Marko is a great spotter/honer of driving talent.
- The technical resources at RedBull, whether people or whether tools, is exemplary.
- Jos Verstappen is a very toxic personality

Centered around all these more or less "all agree" facts, we have so much debating and speculating, mostly very emotionally, centered around the recent CEO-PA scandal, and the CTO exit. What are we trying to establish in this thread, picking sides, assigning blame, making predictions etc ? People are not going to change their views and perspectives, just because of reading posts in an online forum, especially when it comes to subjective topics.

We all know that success is cyclic, what breaks the cycle maybe external like a huge performance jump by competitors, or internal, like the loss of personnel due to death, loss of team unity due to clash of egos or moral battles within. That's how human beings are - will be good/great in their endeavour and something that is external or internal will break 'a good run'. A team falling apart is nothing new. It has happened in all professions, not just an F1 team.

I have seen so many comments to the effect of "nice cope" , "good luck coping with this" , "copium" etc. People are so much emotionally invested in teams/drivers/engineers, and it is some sort of serotonin/dopamine rush when they get to 'talk down' to the 'fans' of a rival team/driver/engineer. Especially when they smell blood as negative news/rumour breaks out about rival teams.

Let's take a step back, and look at it from a holistic perspective : yes the Redbull dominant era (quite short, 2022-2024/5) is very likely coming to an end, whether due to their decorated CTO leaving or whether due to their own powertrains falling short in 2026 or whether due to the loyalty of their star driver to an 80 yr old mentor. Or may be due to a mass exodus of key technical personnel citing the recent scandal/CTO exit/driver exit (if it happens) as the tipping point.

What's the surprise here ? Yes it may be disappointing to some of us, and rejoicing to many others, but let's take it in our stride. F1 will continue, the technical battles will continue, the drivers will continue to play musical chairs, all that will continue, just that the present front runners might get replaced with another set. So what ? We mustn't lose sight of the big picture -> we love the sport for what it is - a talent battle - both driving and engineering. If we are terribly emotionally attached to a team or a driver, it shows that we are not really in love with the sport, but only with some personalities.

Long term F1 fans will be able to easily relate to the perspective I am coming from - "its all cyclic".
(I am sure 'copium', 'hopium' etc comments will come in response to this post)