BrawnGP

[mstar]

sure i think the team must know or have a clear idea what the problem is. Problem is to fix the tyre issue, i rememmber Mclaren had a similar issue but they solved the issue before mid season after that Kimi was flying!

At the end of the season i would LOVE to find out what the problem was i am sure brawngp will tell us? from a novice tecno nutcase like me i like finding out what was the cause and HOW they solved it.

Like some here said (more qualified then me) it must be aero issue/set-up

[Keir]

Surely the issue that has affected Brawn is simply an 'aero balance' issue.

The suggestion from the drivers themselves was that they had added rear downforce with the recent updates.

The newly added downforce pushed the centre of aero pressure backwards meaning that they were unable to get enough heat into their front tyres.

The lack of heat in the front tyres would then affect the way that the drivers were able to 'lean' on the front end and would affect how hard they could push the car, if you can't get the car into the corner you can't create the lateral forces that heat the rear tyres. These low tempratures would then cause graining...

[bazanaius]

there is a man who reads his autosport

[Keir]

It's still open conjecture, but that idea does seem most likely to me and it's the one I agree with.

[gcdugas]

Surely the issue that has affected Brawn is simply an 'aero balance' issue.

The suggestion from the drivers themselves was that they had added rear downforce with the recent updates.

The newly added downforce pushed the centre of aero pressure backwards meaning that they were unable to get enough heat into their front tyres.

The lack of heat in the front tyres would then affect the way that the drivers were able to 'lean' on the front end and would affect how hard they could push the car, if you can't get the car into the corner you can't create the lateral forces that heat the rear tyres. These low tempratures would then cause graining...

What a bunch of non-thinking BS. It had to be a set-up issue. What development caused the car to go from utterly dominant in Istanbul to mid-pack at Britain? If you buy all this low ambient temperature stuff, then why was the car so fast out of the box during cold testing? The temp at Hungary and Monaco was identical 25 Celsius... one race they handily won and the other they suffered on a very similar circuit.

If one believes this "newly added downforce center of pressure" stuff, then we might ask why they just didn't add a bit of rear wing to the car before to achieve this? I think it was an issue with too little toe-in or some ballast placement. But whatever it was, it was NOT a development issue as there was no consequential change between Istanbul and GB. It HAD to be a set-up issue therefore. Think about it just a little before some journo puts forth some conjecture. Apply a bit of good old fashioned logic and critical thinking skills.

[Keir]

That seems a slightly aggressive tone to be taking and I'm not sure why.

Ostensibly your opinion is that the issues that Brawn have had are based on them getting 'lost' with their setup? If I have understood what you have said correctly.
My suggestion is not entirely unrelated as nothing is black and white, and indeed relates to set up and new developments.

My argument would be that, yes, Brawn have had issues with getting heat into their tyres in low ambient temparatures. We know they are easy on their tyres which was the main issue that caused them to struggle compared to the Red Bull in the wet conditions in China.
We also know that all the teams have talked of the tyres 'switching on' at a certain point. This can be the difference between struggling badly and having a car that is 'underneath them'.

Brawn struggled at Silverstone with the same car as at Turkey because they were unable to get heat into the tyres. They chased a resolution to this with setup but were unable to resolve it and the same problem afflicted them in Germany.

They were expected to be back on the pace in Hungary as the temperatures would be higher but they also introduced new developments which as suggested increased the level of rear downforce and moved the balance of aerodynamic downforce backwards, albeit slightly.
What I'm suggesting is that as they followed an aggressive development strategy to increase downforce and head off the threat from Red Bull, that they actually comprimised the balance of the car and then failed to get a handle on setup on a car whose characteristics had altered race by race.

[ESPImperium]

Brawn has the shark fin on Jensons car, with a new front wing and front wing end plates.

[BreezyRacer]

After watching P2 I'm surprised at how little rear wing Brawn started with and how much they seemed to dial in as the session progressed. Seemingly to little avail as i could see the Brawns drifting lose on corner exits even at the high wing settings. Looks like they might still have a rear grip issue, whether it's the same issue or not is yet to be determined.

I also read a Q&A with Barri and he stated that the rear tire problem was indeed found to be mechanical in nature.

In short, it ain't looking good for Brawn so far at Spa.

[ESPImperium]

NEW Chassis for Rubens BGP001-01 at Valencia, now he has the BGP001-03 at Spa.

[di44ety]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJYAYEwlq3M[/youtube]

[CMSMJ1]

I watched both sessions today and I never noticed the anvil wing at all.. great paintwork!

[ESPImperium]

I watched both sessions today and I never noticed the anvil wing at all.. great paintwork! #-o

Thats funny, as soon as i saw it i jumped out of my seat to get closer to the screen. At first i thought it was like what Williams had last year with the FW30 at Monaco, a Shark Fin without the Fin. Sonrta half way house.

[Giblet]

Surely the issue that has affected Brawn is simply an 'aero balance' issue.

The suggestion from the drivers themselves was that they had added rear downforce with the recent updates.

The newly added downforce pushed the centre of aero pressure backwards meaning that they were unable to get enough heat into their front tyres.

The lack of heat in the front tyres would then affect the way that the drivers were able to 'lean' on the front end and would affect how hard they could push the car, if you can't get the car into the corner you can't create the lateral forces that heat the rear tyres. These low tempratures would then cause graining...

What a bunch of non-thinking BS. It had to be a set-up issue. What development caused the car to go from utterly dominant in Istanbul to mid-pack at Britain? If you buy all this low ambient temperature stuff, then why was the car so fast out of the box during cold testing? The temp at Hungary and Monaco was identical 25 Celsius... one race they handily won and the other they suffered on a very similar circuit.

If one believes this "newly added downforce center of pressure" stuff, then we might ask why they just didn't add a bit of rear wing to the car before to achieve this? I think it was an issue with too little toe-in or some ballast placement. But whatever it was, it was NOT a development issue as there was no consequential change between Istanbul and GB. It HAD to be a set-up issue therefore. Think about it just a little before some journo puts forth some conjecture. Apply a bit of good old fashioned logic and critical thinking skills.

Your posts are very harsh, and have very little tact. I hate reading them.

They were utterly dominant, as other teams played catchup. Assuming that they went backwards in development, while the other teams were getting their diffusers all set up properly for their cars might be a little misleading. I think it has more to do with other teams closing the gap, and Brawn taking longer to find the next step. I also have to assume since you publicly hate Autosport that you would take up a contradictory opinion.

I agree that it might not be entirely down to development of the car, and it could be also with the setup.

Saying it is either one or the other is a little silly to assume, as all we can do is assume and guess based on the little public data we get.

[mstar]

i guess we back to the drawing board, on saturday for qualy when temp was down, jenson struggling to get tyre temp which left him with a unstable car. Jeez i cannot understand this is driving me insane lol

personally i think either they need to help jenson (as his driving style which is a advantage in most cars but not the BGP001) tyres or they will keep suffering on the colder tracks.

either way one positive it seems the team has reduced drag on the car in the last 2 races

[Keir]

Quote from Ross Brawn:

"The rear temperature is easy to get because you can use the throttle to generate it. But until we get the front tyres to work we can't use the rears properly and so for qualifying you are trying to make some compensations and it didn't really work out that well. So we are back a little bit to the problems we had a couple of races ago.