2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[Otromundo]

I think we all agree that the rear suspension may be the problem or at least a large proportion of it. And that the rear part is the main problematic area.

That is why it degrades the rear tires voraciously and this leads to the rest of the problems, worsening the behavior of the car. More or less, right?

The mysterious matter of the wind tunnel, the scale of the models, the necessary software(s) ... and the also mysterious decisions of the FIA ​​regarding TOO MANY things ... we will leave them aside. Although thank you very much for the info.

I don't think Canada, with its curves, walls and demanding braking zones is the best place to do risky experiments. But they have to do something soon because from China we are plummeting and/or the rest of the teams are improving a lot.

It is curious that such small and apparently simple mechanical parts are so decisive...

[Nikosar]

Very interesting article about the correlation issue :

https://formu1a.uno/en/aston-martin-upg ... simulator/

The solution seems to wait until Aston’s new simulator

Crazy how in Canada last year Alonso matched VER pace and potently could chase him but backed off by the team with the lift and coast. McLaren was in no man's land in Canada finishing +65 sec behind VER.

[diffuser]

I think we all agree that the rear suspension may be the problem or at least a large proportion of it. And that the rear part is the main problematic area.

That is why it degrades the rear tires voraciously and this leads to the rest of the problems, worsening the behavior of the car. More or less, right?

The mysterious matter of the wind tunnel, the scale of the models, the necessary software(s) ... and the also mysterious decisions of the FIA ​​regarding TOO MANY things ... we will leave them aside. Although thank you very much for the info.

I don't think Canada, with its curves, walls and demanding braking zones is the best place to do risky experiments. But they have to do something soon because from China we are plummeting and/or the rest of the teams are improving a lot.

It is curious that such small and apparently simple mechanical parts are so decisive...

They all said it has nothing to do with the rear suspension but has to do with a lack of rear DF.

[SSJ4]

Question whats the difference between wind tunnel and correlation and simulator correlation vs actual track performance

[diffuser]

Question whats the difference between wind tunnel and correlation and simulator correlation vs actual track performance

I believe when they refer to simulator, they're reffing to the CFD simulator.

From Google ..
CFD and Wind Tunnels Used Together

In reality, CFD and wind tunnels are often used together in a symbiotic process. CFD is used to simulate the flow and predict the aerodynamic behavior, while wind tunnels are used to validate the results and provide experimental data. This combination allows engineers to refine their designs and optimize their performance.

Limitations of CFD

CFD has limitations, including:

Assumptions and approximations: CFD models make assumptions and approximations, which can lead to inaccuracies.
Turbulence modeling: CFD struggles to accurately model turbulence, which is a critical aspect of aerodynamics.
Geometry complexity: CFD can struggle with complex geometries, such as those found in aircraft and spacecraft.
Limitations of Wind Tunnels

Wind tunnels also have limitations:

Cost and time: Wind tunnel testing is expensive and time-consuming.
Scale models: Wind tunnel testing often requires scale models, which can be inaccurate or difficult to create.
Limited data: Wind tunnels can only provide data for specific flow conditions and geometries.
Conclusion

In conclusion, CFD and wind tunnels are complementary tools that work together to advance aerospace engineering. While CFD has reduced the need for physical wind tunnel testing, wind tunnels are still essential for validating CFD results and providing experimental data for complex scenarios. The combination of CFD and wind tunnels enables engineers to design and optimize aircraft and spacecraft with greater accuracy and efficiency.

[diffuser]

I think that a lot of the CFD modeling(programs) they had prior to this new set of aero regs don't apply. Simply because there has never ever been this much focus on creating DF from the floor and what applies above the floor doesn't always apply below. There is an emptiness above the car. You don't really care where that flow goes once it gone up. Below the floor, flow is stuck between the car floor and the ground. The ground changes speed as you accelerate and decelerate. Just think it's just different to control it.

[zoroastar]

I also wouldn't rule out to see Mike Elliott in the CTO role at AMR.

Regarding Krack there are a lot of rumours since winter that Stroll is searching for a new TP. In my opinion too many.

i think they had a meeting post race. meetings with the boss always cause rumors, especially when they are doing awful. i heard that fallows would replace krack haha

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

I think we all agree that the rear suspension may be the problem or at least a large proportion of it. And that the rear part is the main problematic area.

That is why it degrades the rear tires voraciously and this leads to the rest of the problems, worsening the behavior of the car. More or less, right?

The mysterious matter of the wind tunnel, the scale of the models, the necessary software(s) ... and the also mysterious decisions of the FIA ​​regarding TOO MANY things ... we will leave them aside. Although thank you very much for the info.

I don't think Canada, with its curves, walls and demanding braking zones is the best place to do risky experiments. But they have to do something soon because from China we are plummeting and/or the rest of the teams are improving a lot.

It is curious that such small and apparently simple mechanical parts are so decisive...

You think? We all agree? I mean 8f it would be suspension issue, then Mercedes also would be slow as Aston. In Monaco you need a lot of mechanical grip,which definitely was good fir Mercedes at qualification. Aston fans really shouldn't point at rear suspension till they are not fast as Mercedes which recently really far ahead.

[zoroastar]

the whole rear suspension rumor comes from fallows making a comment in preseason about rather having the capability to design their own suspension i think. it didnt blame the mercedes suspension for anything other than it wasnt the optimal choice if fallows could have chosen. it doesnt have anything to do with the failure to bring working upgrades, or even being behind from the start. they may see a way of solving some of their problems by changing their rear end, but they should have designed the car around the parts they knew they were getting. now its all about making it work.

andrea stella said that when mclaren finally learned how to read the data they were recieving in this rule set, that is when their performance started coming. all the teams have had to adjust how they read their windtunnel and CFD data with these ground effect cars. and some teams still havent figured it out completely. add to that any correlation issues and it gets extremely complex. i still think aston will make it work, it just seems to take them longer than other teams. hopefully they can get all that worked out soon

[nowaysthatsreal]

I feel they should have not chased top speed, they got what they were chasing for but lost the key areas of their 23 car in the process. 23 car even with weak top speed was a .

[Sherrinford]

I think we all agree that the rear suspension may be the problem or at least a large proportion of it. And that the rear part is the main problematic area.

That is why it degrades the rear tires voraciously and this leads to the rest of the problems, worsening the behavior of the car. More or less, right?

The mysterious matter of the wind tunnel, the scale of the models, the necessary software(s) ... and the also mysterious decisions of the FIA ​​regarding TOO MANY things ... we will leave them aside. Although thank you very much for the info.

I don't think Canada, with its curves, walls and demanding braking zones is the best place to do risky experiments. But they have to do something soon because from China we are plummeting and/or the rest of the teams are improving a lot.

It is curious that such small and apparently simple mechanical parts are so decisive...

You think? We all agree? I mean 8f it would be suspension issue, then Mercedes also would be slow as Aston. In Monaco you need a lot of mechanical grip,which definitely was good fir Mercedes at qualification. Aston fans really shouldn't point at rear suspension till they are not fast as Mercedes which recently really far ahead.

But Mercedes designed the car on those suspensions, Aston had to adapt. It's not the main problem, but it shouldn't be underestimated. The most important thing is to solve problems linked to the track and factory correlation (suspension has nothing to do with that) because this problem has persisted since last year. I don't personally understand krack's responsibilities, it has nothing to do directly with the development of the car.

[-wkst-]

I don't personally understand krack's responsibilities, it has nothing to do directly with the development of the car.

After all it's his responsibility to hire enough engineers, that such issues with the simulations don't appear or at least can be understand quickly. Otherwise you don't need a TP. He has to oversee all the areas: sport, administration and technical.

[Sherrinford]

I don't personally understand krack's responsibilities, it has nothing to do directly with the development of the car.

After all it's his responsibility to hire enough engineers, that such issues with the simulations don't appear or at least can be understand quickly. Otherwise you don't need a TP. He has to oversee all the areas: sport, administration and technical.

But the hiring does not depend only on him, perhaps they have already made some offers that have been rejected. Then the technical department is also good on paper, but if it goes badly it's difficult to blame in my opinion. The strategies, pit stops etc. For me, this could encourage the team to improve, for the rest it is the responsibility of the car's technical department

[Otromundo]

I think we all agree that the rear suspension may be the problem or at least a large proportion of it. And that the rear part is the main problematic area.

That is why it degrades the rear tires voraciously and this leads to the rest of the problems, worsening the behavior of the car. More or less, right?

The mysterious matter of the wind tunnel, the scale of the models, the necessary software(s) ... and the also mysterious decisions of the FIA ​​regarding TOO MANY things ... we will leave them aside. Although thank you very much for the info.

I don't think Canada, with its curves, walls and demanding braking zones is the best place to do risky experiments. But they have to do something soon because from China we are plummeting and/or the rest of the teams are improving a lot.

It is curious that such small and apparently simple mechanical parts are so decisive...

You think? We all agree? I mean 8f it would be suspension issue, then Mercedes also would be slow as Aston. In Monaco you need a lot of mechanical grip,which definitely was good fir Mercedes at qualification. Aston fans really shouldn't point at rear suspension till they are not fast as Mercedes which recently really far ahead.

I speak in general terms and since there are several issues related to the rear axle: premature degradation of rear tires, erratic behavior of the car... then most likely the source of problems is located at the rear of the car. And it should be related to the transmission, suspension and/or aerodynamics.

Always talking about the apparent main problem, drivability. There are other important problems such as the lack of top speed. Which could even be closely related to what I consider the main problem.

McL changed the rear suspension. MB is the mother of the child and that will give some advantage.

McL at the beginning was not very fast on straights either. Although yes - and by difference - in the curves, a tradition of the brand. They have been messing around with it quite a bit until they find the improvements. They took little time to do it. I don't know how many people McL has working on his problems. But I imagine that there will be many more than in AM, this in addition to the team's long experience in competition must also be considered.

MB is MB. It was difficult for them at first. But then they have serenaded us well for a decade with their world titles. Without hesitation. I'm sure they also have more people and experience. And they are also the mother of the child.

Some colleagues have already mentioned that the problem at the rear is more aerodynamic than mechanical. And I have taken good note of it because it seems reasonable to me.

The first time I saw the front suspension of an F1 it made me laugh. It was logical, options: hard or very hard. But "the shock absorbers", oh my god. The rear suspensions are somewhat more complicated and there is also the transmission. There is much more movement than on the front axle. There is also the aerodynamics, which are also more complicated at the rear.

As you will see, I do not grant 100% of the blame to any specific element. Although the mess is in the back where there are several interrelated things that could share the problem.

Sorry, I type very fast and sometimes my explanations may take too long.

[diffuser]

AMR have made changes to the Imola upgrades and they've been brought to Montreal ...

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-as ... /10620194/

Montreal




Compared to the original version, the one brought to Canada has the last element that has been revised in the slightly increased rope on the exit edge since the addition of a nolder that was not there in Italy. Although the Montreal track would require a medium-low load setup, in Aston Martin looking for that missing aerodynamic balance with a slightly more impactful solution.

Tomorrow we will also be able to discover the first update of the floor which has been revised in some parts after collecting the unsatisfactory data of Imola. In the team they are sure that the AMR24 has potential that has so far remained hidden and Lawrence Stroll's ambition is for the team to return to score points with the two drivers, because in Munich they had been dry-mouthed.