2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Cs98]

To all of you who responded allow me to elaborate:

LH can't gleen much from GR, meaning he isn't learning anything he doesn't already know or has already tried from what GR is doing on track. He can't get ten years back.

If GR is already quick by being on the ragged edge and then sees the LH is gaining on him in in specific ways by doing specific things he can improve whereas LH might be able to see that GR is fast everywhere because he's closer to the edge, something that LH isn't capable of achieving or willing to risk these days.

Source of this line of thinking is GR himself, stating he looked at LH data for Canada and found where to improve.

You never stop learning. This isn't a sport where you come back every year and the exact same way of driving works again and again. The car changes, the track changes, the weather changes, and thus the way you have to drive changes. So when you say Lewis can't learn anything he didn't already know you are mistaken. You always need to re-learn how you get the maximum performance out of the current circumstances. On the days where George is faster Lewis will be the one pouring over his data, and vice versa. It's really not more complicated than that. Now if you want to say that Lewis can't replicate George's speed because it is simply more reliant on pushing closer to the limit, fine, but that's basically akin to saying George is just faster.

[denyall]

To all of you who responded allow me to elaborate:

LH can't gleen much from GR, meaning he isn't learning anything he doesn't already know or has already tried from what GR is doing on track. He can't get ten years back.

If GR is already quick by being on the ragged edge and then sees the LH is gaining on him in in specific ways by doing specific things he can improve whereas LH might be able to see that GR is fast everywhere because he's closer to the edge, something that LH isn't capable of achieving or willing to risk these days.

Source of this line of thinking is GR himself, stating he looked at LH data for Canada and found where to improve.

You never stop learning. This isn't a sport where you come back every year and the exact same way of driving works again and again. The car changes, the track changes, the weather changes, and thus the way you have to drive changes. So when you say Lewis can't learn anything he didn't already know you are mistaken. You always need to re-learn how you get the maximum performance out of the current circumstances. On the days where George is faster Lewis will be the one pouring over his data, and vice versa. It's really not more complicated than that. Now if you want to say that Lewis can't replicate George's speed because it is simply more reliant on pushing closer to the limit, fine, but that's basically akin to saying George is just faster.

George is faster...

I'm not making excuses for LH, I'm saying that the net benefit of data sharing is greater for GR than for LH. Specifically because the ways LH is faster, at least in Canada, were things that GR can copy and the ways GR were faster were things LH was unwilling, or in my opinion, unable to copy.

[Formula 1 fan]

Is Hamilton opted with setup for race?

[mstar]

I dont have much evidence for what I am about to say, but i think George is also a learning machine. He seems to be putting in more hard work studying the driving and the tracks than Lewis is. He builds up his weekends stronger and he is also aware of the other cars and how they are progressing. Very astute drive is George.
Lewis like most of us is a bit long in the tooth and jaded. That comes with age. But he needs to get back into the freshman mode if he is to have any chance of another championship.
A win for George would add a nice lump of points to the 12 point gap already existing between them.

George admitted he and his engineer after P3 sat down analysed lewis outlaps by corner and brake applications and warm up of tyres and went into his fast lap to learn where he can improve he used that in Qualy as he was taking the chicanes in different way to lewis. Chris Medard said on the podcast he learnt a lot from P3 as he couldn't match lewis time in that session.


This goes back to what i was saying earlier. Lewis is a little too team player mascot. He needs to be like nico and HIDE his best braking/lines until Qualy. Nico said this in 2017 he knew lewis was good anyway and if he knew where HE was quick he beat him. So he kept little secrets like go fast in corners and slow in others to hide his pace/driving.
George is obviously learning where lewis is best and takes that and applys it to great effect. There is a reason why lewis in monaco/canada was so so fast in p1,2,3 then come qualy he drops off as he doesn't learn anything from george so he he never improves his performance.

Sometimes i think lewis is just too natural driver he needs to hold back his best until Qualy. And be a little crafty and clever. He needs to learn from Alonso. He was natorious for this in his days at mclaren, ferrari and earlier days.

[Mosin123]

Better driver needs to copy slower driver to beat him. makes sense..

Guess LH will be hiding his pace from now on like he ended up doing with Rosberg.

[JordanMugen]

Sainz (or Ocon) if they want an experienced and fast driver

There is strong belief that Ocon has signed a 1 year deal with Mercedes.

Great choice!

Ocon is faster than people think and is a very solid choice for Mercedes GP IMO.

[Cs98]

Sainz (or Ocon) if they want an experienced and fast driver

There is strong belief that Ocon has signed a 1 year deal with Mercedes.

Great choice!

Ocon is faster than people think and is a very solid choice for Mercedes GP IMO.

Or not. He's talented enough to be a 2nd driver in a top car, but has the exact opposite psychology of someone you'd want in that position.

[Dunlay]

Sainz (or Ocon) if they want an experienced and fast driver

There is strong belief that Ocon has signed a 1 year deal with Mercedes.

Great choice!

Ocon is faster than people think and is a very solid choice for Mercedes GP IMO.

Or not. He's talented enough to be a 2nd driver in a top car, but has the exact opposite psychology of someone you'd want in that position.

Ocon is a waste of time. He is fast, but has a totally screwed up mental make up. I don't think any top team would sign him.

[venkyhere]

Sainz (or Ocon) if they want an experienced and fast driver

There is strong belief that Ocon has signed a 1 year deal with Mercedes.

Great choice!

Ocon is faster than people think and is a very solid choice for Mercedes GP IMO.

I agree completely. Very under-rated in terms of his raw pace. However, it will be great fun to watch two Kamikaze-style drivers in one team - both RUS and OCO are proper terrorists when it comes to wheel-to-wheel-racing

[PlatinumZealot]

Lewis need to go back to the Nico Rosberg days. Hide everything until the last run. But it's almost impossible to hide. The engineers have access to every meter of track data these days.
Also I think Mercedes is feeding Russel all the cues as they did back in the day with Nico. Russel is not studying the data on his own; his engineers are feeding him the little nuances with Lewis laps.
Russel is the future, and Mercedes will squeeze every last drop out of Lewis' data as they can before he leaves.

Has anyone officially reported this is or just tin foil hat? Studying data goes both ways, hiding pace goes both ways. Ultimately, putting together a good qualifying to beat your team mate takes a lot more than just studying the data. As per what we heard from James Vowels, Lewis does loads of things to learn through each lap in each practice. Qualifying is just the culmination of all that he gathers for himself. I don't know if that data is structured to allow other driver to fully understand what Lewis was trying and then use the best parts of it in his own lap to beat Lewis. His glory days of outstanding qualifying performance are most behind him now. Sad, but true. We don't get to see electrifying Lewis on the ragged edge, pulling incredible laps was a sight to behold.

I see you were not watching in 2014 to 2016. Hah. There was Dossier Gate!! It's real!

[ringo]

At the end of the day evrn if they were equal, the conditions got worse when Lewis did his lap.
Thr wind changed and the track cooled considerably. In essence there is nothing Lewis could have done to be on pole apart from being the first Mercedes out of the garage or going beyond what george and he himself have been doing all weekend to counteract the degrading conditions.
Russel did benefit from the tow, and is also running a lower downforce setup so will naturally be quicker in the faster parts of the track, especially when usin DRS in qually.

During the the race things may be different as the deg is high and he has Max and the Mclarens pushing him. He may not be able to control his own pace.
Something tells me he and Lewis will end up finishing together, if one doesnt crash out.

[AMG.Tzan]

Sainz (or Ocon) if they want an experienced and fast driver

There is strong belief that Ocon has signed a 1 year deal with Mercedes.

Great choice!

Ocon is faster than people think and is a very solid choice for Mercedes GP IMO.

Wow I never expected this!

I’m getting ready for the fireworks between Ocon and Russell then! It’ll be the funniest thing ever!

If Ocon is crashing with Gasly all the time then guess what’s going to happen with Russell…

[Hammerfist]

Ocon and Russell is an absolutely diabolical lineup. I can’t believe Toto would do this. In fact I won’t believe it until it’s official.

[Dunlay]

Lewis need to go back to the Nico Rosberg days. Hide everything until the last run. But it's almost impossible to hide. The engineers have access to every meter of track data these days.
Also I think Mercedes is feeding Russel all the cues as they did back in the day with Nico. Russel is not studying the data on his own; his engineers are feeding him the little nuances with Lewis laps.
Russel is the future, and Mercedes will squeeze every last drop out of Lewis' data as they can before he leaves.

Has anyone officially reported this is or just tin foil hat? Studying data goes both ways, hiding pace goes both ways. Ultimately, putting together a good qualifying to beat your team mate takes a lot more than just studying the data. As per what we heard from James Vowels, Lewis does loads of things to learn through each lap in each practice. Qualifying is just the culmination of all that he gathers for himself. I don't know if that data is structured to allow other driver to fully understand what Lewis was trying and then use the best parts of it in his own lap to beat Lewis. His glory days of outstanding qualifying performance are most behind him now. Sad, but true. We don't get to see electrifying Lewis on the ragged edge, pulling incredible laps was a sight to behold.

I see you were not watching in 2014 to 2016. Hah. There was Dossier Gate!! It's real!

What has that got to do with this situation?

[ringo]

Ocon and Russell is an absolutely diabolical lineup. I can’t believe Toto would do this. In fact I won’t believe it until it’s official.

Sainz or Antonnelli is sensible. Ocon should go to HAAS or leave the sport. Like with his former teammate Alonso a team principal has to consider not just the driving ability but the environmental impact when these guys come to a team.