2024 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 07 - 09

[chrisc90]

I wonder what the precedent for driving a car in a unsafe condition is.

[Farnborough]

I wonder what the precedent for driving a car in a unsafe condition is.

The great irony being;- at the circuit Gilles Villeneuve, a driver celebrated for driving such cars in various state of missing parts there should now be specific penalties available to penalise such a deed

Ultimately far too many penalties being used for anything people want to bitch about.

[TimW]

I wonder what the precedent for driving a car in a unsafe condition is.

Alonso Baku 2018?

[JordanMugen]

Norris super unlucky with the SC.

McLaren could have pitted Norris simply by anticipating the safety car that was yet to be called though?

[chrisc90]

Norris super unlucky with the SC.

McLaren could have pitted Norris simply by anticipating the safety car that was yet to be called though?

Agreed. Norris even questioned the box late on but his engineer was too slow.

Should have been a safety car board box message. Would have been enough time for the team to get out for the stop.

Operational sharpness.

[Sieper]

Norris super unlucky with the SC.

McLaren could have pitted Norris simply by anticipating the safety car that was yet to be called though?

Yes, allthough that is a tough call.

but the actual call wasn't that tough, the last sign on the straight already showed SC before Norris passed it. He was very open about it after the race, they missed the opportunity themselves. Granted, needed super quick reaction but that didn't happen.

[SiLo]

As soon as the car wasn't moving under it's own power, I thought teams would start entering the pits immediately because it was obvious it would be at least a SC.

Maybe they were concerned it would be a red flag because it needed a recovery vehicle on the track?

[venkyhere]

Expecting Redbull to do well in S1 where the rapid change of direction through 3-4-5-6 will matter.
Expecting Ferrari to dominate S2 and S3 where lots of kerbs and chicanes are present.
Expecting McLaren to be the runner up in all sectors.

Expecting Max and LeClerc to truly show their exceptional skill transitioning from the start-finish straight into a style of T1 such that they then blend into an 'efficient' T2.

Any of VER/LEC/NOR to win.

oops! forgot to add, the hairpin T10 exit -> going to be a mega deciding factor, a "driver skill" corner + "which car rotates quickest" corner, all rolled into one

These images are from the hairpin T10, towards the end of the first lap after the final safety car restart. I have drawn a reference line at the exit of the corner, and each screenshot shows the relative position of the cars to this line. HAM and ALO are on H , rest are on M of the same age (except RUS who has freshest M), and since many high speed braking and traction events are already done over the first restart lap, tyres have come into temp I assume.









It's a good testament to who has the best exit from the corner after making the most 'efficient rotation' , as having the car 'straightest at the earliest', is key to maximize performance over the mega straight that comes after this hairpin.

As we can see, VER & HAM are the best (VER marginally better, to my eye) at this, as they are alien level talent. The difference w.r.t others is very subtle, but key.
The people in the grandstand facing this view, would have easily been able to see this difference across drivers/cars, lap after lap.

[search]

Maybe they were concerned it would be a red flag because it needed a recovery vehicle on the track?

even then they should have pitted, as it basically was a free stop. Norris was 11s ahead at that point - probably more at pit entry, as the others had to slow down on the straight. He was not at risk of losing the lead, no matter what the others did.

[organic]

Maybe they were concerned it would be a red flag because it needed a recovery vehicle on the track?

even then they should have pitted, as it basically was a free stop. Norris was 11s ahead at that point - probably more at pit entry, as the others had to slow down on the straight. He was not at risk of losing the lead, no matter what the others did.

Maybe they weren't sure if boxing for new inters would be worth it?

If we look at what happened after that, tsunoda held onto his position (if not gained one) using his old intermediates having not boxed yet. So it might've been the case of it not being as obvious of a decision as it seems on the surface.

Then a lap later once everyone else has chosen to take the new tyres it leaves you in a precarious position. If the new tyres are worth more than you feared then you're the only one in the top 5 on old tyres and could get shuffled right back out of win contention. So then starting P3/p4 at the restart with probably the fastest or equal fastest car with 40 laps to go is not a bad situation still in terms of being able to fight for the win.

It was an easier call for red bull as max had cooked his inters and said on the radio that he'd need a new set if it rained again, so the SC was very fortunate for him

[dialtone]

Props for honesty but $25k fine and 3 place drop for checo is extremely lenient. For comparison Ferrari was fined $5k for putting on inters on an obviously wet track as it was declared such 2 minutes later, and in free practice.

I put this in the same spot as Russell cutting T1 in monza to pass since the penalty was just 5s. Very troubling behavior against the sport and needs a rule change at minimum.

[Cs98]

Props for honesty but $25k fine and 3 place drop for checo is extremely lenient. For comparison Ferrari was fined $5k for putting on inters on an obviously wet track as it was declared such 2 minutes later, and in free practice.

I put this in the same spot as Russell cutting T1 in monza to pass since the penalty was just 5s. Very troubling behavior against the sport and needs a rule change at minimum.

So your comparison is a much more lenient penalty for a more lenient infringement? Don't really see your point. Btw, did Sainz get a penalty for destroying Albon's car?

[dialtone]

Props for honesty but $25k fine and 3 place drop for checo is extremely lenient. For comparison Ferrari was fined $5k for putting on inters on an obviously wet track as it was declared such 2 minutes later, and in free practice.

I put this in the same spot as Russell cutting T1 in monza to pass since the penalty was just 5s. Very troubling behavior against the sport and needs a rule change at minimum.

So your comparison is a much more lenient penalty for a more lenient infringement? Don't really see your point. Btw, did Sainz get a penalty for destroying Albon's car?

Sainz clearly didn’t lose control on purpose, exactly like checo didn’t lose control on purpose. Albon was a very unfortunate event, not sure why the comparison, you think somehow Sainz did it on purpose?

[chrisc90]

Race manipulation again by Redbull. What could have been if there was a safety car?
These guys always get away with murder.
This is almost just as bad as Nelson Piquet crashing on purpose. There wasnt a pre race plan.. but there was an in race plane to break the rules to influence the outcome.

I dont see it as race manipulation in all fairness. It was a accident and Checo decided to try get the car back to the pits.

Interestingly, article 26.10 states:

26.10 If a driver has serious mechanical difficulties, he must leave the track as soon as it is safe to do
so

I mean, Checo himself probably didnt have any mechanical difficulty, it was his car. It wouldnt be the first time you could play on the wording of the rules really.

What difference is there to losing a front wing to a rear wing? To a puncture or a snapped suspension link?

Harsh penalty to be fair - especially +3 place drop. The infringement document also says that the team told Checo to bring it back (which his engineer did confirm when Checo asked to bring it back) but there was never any mention that it was to avoid a safety car.

The penalty is imposed inline with precedents....does anyone know what these are? First ive heard of them.

[Cs98]

Props for honesty but $25k fine and 3 place drop for checo is extremely lenient. For comparison Ferrari was fined $5k for putting on inters on an obviously wet track as it was declared such 2 minutes later, and in free practice.

I put this in the same spot as Russell cutting T1 in monza to pass since the penalty was just 5s. Very troubling behavior against the sport and needs a rule change at minimum.

So your comparison is a much more lenient penalty for a more lenient infringement? Don't really see your point. Btw, did Sainz get a penalty for destroying Albon's car?

Sainz clearly didn’t lose control on purpose, exactly like checo didn’t lose control on purpose. Albon was a very unfortunate event, not sure why the comparison, you think somehow Sainz did it on purpose?

On purpose? Intent isn't a pre-requisite for a penalty being warranted, just because you didn't intend for a certain outcome doesn't mean you are absolved of all responsibility. I'd argue most crashes (including those that are penalised) are unintentional but stem from a lack of control or poor decision making leading to a bad outcome. In the case of Sainz he lost control and was about to slide off the track before he himself through his own steering inputs turned his rear back into the middle of the circuit, collecting Albon.

It reminded me of this crash, albeit less dramatic.