2024 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 07 - 09

[AR3-GP]

The big thing here is Red Bull admitting to telling Perez to try to bring the car back to the pits because they wanted to avoid a safety car, most likely knowing they would get a penalty

This only occured at T10, which as you know is 1 corner away from the pitlane. The car had 4 wheel straights, and if you have an F1 tv package, the car was not dropping debris on the circuit. They showed the rear facing camera on the Perez onboard feed after the crash. It is absolutely not unreasonable for Red Bull to tell Perez to bring it back at T10.

It may be that the stewards disagreed as to the severity of the damage (without a physical inspection this is impossible to determine the rigidity of what remained). It is simply an "agree to disagree". Red Bull are well within their right to tell a car that only had minor damage to drive home to avoid a safety car. That is well within the domain of Strategy especially as PErez already made it to T10 when they told him.

There's nothing here. The penalty is nonsense but again "agree to disagree".

[organic]

For me if the team knew that the car was unsafe and should have waited for a safety car and still chose not to it's manipulating the race

The team had no involvement in Perez driving away from the accident scene. Perez was not stationary for more than 1.5 seconds. This is simply reactionary from Perez to drive back onto the circuit. There is no radio instruction. They would never have been able to intervene in such a short amount of time, let alone worry about "Waiting for a safety car". The guy drove off. How could they have told him to wait for a safety car?

https://i.postimg.cc/VsGDtZ6y/F1-TV-202 ... timize.gif

Bird did not ask if Perez was "ok" , that is how quickly Perez left the scene. Once Perez got going again, why would Red Bull tell him to stop on the track with the limited footage availabe, and a car that was driven back onto the circuit with moderate speed. This crucifixion is nonsense.

Surely they advise Perez to park up at an escape road rather than drive around to the pits in normal circumstances

That's what I mean by causing a safety car

Red bull admitted that they advised Perez to drive to the pits to reduce the chance of a safety car coming out. Which implies they would have done something else had a safety car possibility not threatened their win

[AR3-GP]

The big thing here is Red Bull admitting to telling Perez to try to bring the car back to the pits to avoid a safety car, knowing they would get a penalty

They never directly told him that though. Perez asks if he should bring it back to the pits, and his engineer agrees.

its literally in the fia document saying they admitted to it when they were summoned

and that alone is not grounds for a penalty when a driver is 1 corner away from the pitlane when he is told this.

This is quite unlike Japan 2019 when Leclerc and Ferrari almost killed a driver running around with a damaged front wing at racing speed for multiple laps, and still managed to get a less severe penalty than what Perez received today.

[chrisc90]

The big thing here is Red Bull admitting to telling Perez to try to bring the car back to the pits to avoid a safety car, knowing they would get a penalty

They never directly told him that though. Perez asks if he should bring it back to the pits, and his engineer agrees.

its literally in the fia document saying they admitted to it when they were summoned

Such comments weren't broadcast over the team radio to Perez thats for certain.

Here's the clip of Perez returning to the pits including team radio.

[AR3-GP]

Surely they advise Perez to park up at an escape road rather than drive around to the pits in normal circumstances

Based on what? They couldn't see the car fully to make a determination. He was driven off under his own steam. This alone would imply the limited severity of such a crash.

[Luscion]

The big thing here is Red Bull admitting to telling Perez to try to bring the car back to the pits because they wanted to avoid a safety car, most likely knowing they would get a penalty

This only occured at T10, which as you know is 1 corner away from the pitlane. The car had 4 wheel straights, and if you have an F1 tv package, the car was not dropping debris on the circuit. They showed the rear facing camera on the Perez onboard feed after the crash. It is absolutely not unreasonable for Red Bull to tell Perez to bring it back at T10.

It may be that the stewards disagreed as to the severity of the damage (without a physical inspection this is impossible to determine the rigidity of what remained). It is simply an "agree to disagree". Red Bull are well within their right to tell a car that only had minor damage to drive home to avoid a safety car. That is well within the domain of Strategy especially as PErez already made it to T10 when they told him.

There's nothing here. The penalty is nonsense but again "agree to disagree".

My main point is doing it simply to avoid a safety car and pieces of his wing did break off onto the track. Crofty and Martin point it out right here

[TFSA]

its literally in the fia document saying they admitted to it when they were summoned

The question is why people think it's relevant. If Verstappen has DNF'ed on lap 1, they could still argue that they'd want to avoid a safety car situation, for no other reason than letting everyone else race, even with two retired cars.

The document says nothing about whether or not they knew the car was shedding carbon fiber. As the video (GIF) posted by AR3-GP shows, Perez rejoined the track on his own accord almost instantly. If you want to make a case here, you need to argue that Red Bull knew the car was a safety hazard - which is a very hard point to make.

In fact, i find the penalty itself ridiculous. It's a driver has an accident, but the car is driveable and he gets going again quickly (like Perez did), the norm is pretty much always that the driver brings it back to the pits, often of their own accord. Otherwise you can find plenty of examples (some already provided by other posters) where drivers should have stopped on track and caused an SC. In fact, i can think of one they even missed if I'm not mistaken: Verstappens in Australia this year. If his brake had exploded before he made it to the pits in Australia, that should also have been a penalty by this standard.

Now keeping the car on track is a different matter. You can penalize teams or drivers if they don't bring a severely damaged car back to the pits, but stays out. But penalizing someone for bringing a damaged car back to the pits in a reasonable way (more on that in the next paragraph), when it's tenable to do so, rather than causing a safety car, it's just bad practice. Safety cars should be avoided if possible, and i don't believe it's reasonable for a team or driver to judge exactly what damage has occurred in such a short notice.

What should have been penalized, in my opinion, isn't Perez bringing it back to the pits, but the way he did it. Despite what the commentators said, he wasn't "limping" back. He was driving back at speed, which is what caused the carbon fiber to go all over the place. Had he truly been limping back at slower speeds, then all of this could have been avoided, and drivers would have just been shown white flags for "slow car ahead". Yuki in Zandvoort 2022 is af example of limping back to the pits slowly. Perez didn't do that. Sadly, he's an extremely impatient driver.

[Luscion]

its literally in the fia document saying they admitted to it when they were summoned

The document says nothing about whether or not they knew the car was shedding carbon fiber. As the video (GIF) posted by AR3-GP shows, Perez rejoined the track on his own accord almost instantly. If you want to make a case here, you need to argue that Red Bull knew the car was a safety hazard - which is a very hard point to make.

Pieces of his broken wing on the track was shown on live. i believe its the same feed the teams have access to? correct me if i'm wrong. The first time they cut to Perez you can see little pieces breaking off, then they cut to Russell and Norris while still talking about the wing and showing a big piece of it in the middle of the track which Crofty and Brundle point out

[chrisc90]

its literally in the fia document saying they admitted to it when they were summoned

The document says nothing about whether or not they knew the car was shedding carbon fiber. As the video (GIF) posted by AR3-GP shows, Perez rejoined the track on his own accord almost instantly. If you want to make a case here, you need to argue that Red Bull knew the car was a safety hazard - which is a very hard point to make.

Pieces of his broken wing on the track was shown on live. i believe its the same feed the teams have access to?, The first time they cut to Perez you can see little pieces breaking off, then they cut to Russell and Norris while still talking about the wing and showing a big piece of it in the middle of the track which Crofty and Brundle point out

What difference is that to say a front wing end plate falling off on the track? Happens plenty of times. That just gets a black/orange flag if its likely to fall off. If it falls off you dont get a 3 place grid drop.

[TFSA]

its literally in the fia document saying they admitted to it when they were summoned

The document says nothing about whether or not they knew the car was shedding carbon fiber. As the video (GIF) posted by AR3-GP shows, Perez rejoined the track on his own accord almost instantly. If you want to make a case here, you need to argue that Red Bull knew the car was a safety hazard - which is a very hard point to make.

Pieces of his broken wing on the track was shown on live, the same feed the teams have access too, The first time they cut to Perez you can see little pieces breaking off, then they cut to Russell and Norris while still talking about the wing and showing a big piece of it in the middle of the track

Which, as i said, is rather likely not a result of Perez driving back, but rather the fact that he did so at higher speeds than was reasonable. And that should absolutely be penalized.

But Perez was already going again before we saw that on the cameras. Remember, the TV feed is delayed, not just for us, but also for the teams. So technically, his actions would have been punishable before the team even realized what was going on. That's what i find unreasonable. Penalize him for driving a damaged car like a maniac instead of being careful - but don't penalize teams for something that is extremely hard to react to.

Chrisc90 said the rest.

[AR3-GP]

its literally in the fia document saying they admitted to it when they were summoned

The document says nothing about whether or not they knew the car was shedding carbon fiber. As the video (GIF) posted by AR3-GP shows, Perez rejoined the track on his own accord almost instantly. If you want to make a case here, you need to argue that Red Bull knew the car was a safety hazard - which is a very hard point to make.

Pieces of his broken wing on the track was shown on live. i believe its the same feed the teams have access to? correct me if i'm wrong. The first time they cut to Perez you can see little pieces breaking off, then they cut to Russell and Norris while still talking about the wing and showing a big piece of it in the middle of the track which Crofty and Brundle point out

and as I said before the note of "pieces" is dramatization. Perez's rear facing camera shows only a single piece of rear wing shedding between T9 and T10, the one pictured in your prior post. **** happens and something gets left on the track all the time, but from then on why are RB not allowed to assume that is the end of the shedding? Other cars lose bits of their car and make debris on the circuit after lap 1 all the time, this does not compel them to pit.

[Cs98]

The document says nothing about whether or not they knew the car was shedding carbon fiber. As the video (GIF) posted by AR3-GP shows, Perez rejoined the track on his own accord almost instantly. If you want to make a case here, you need to argue that Red Bull knew the car was a safety hazard - which is a very hard point to make.

Pieces of his broken wing on the track was shown on live. i believe its the same feed the teams have access to? correct me if i'm wrong. The first time they cut to Perez you can see little pieces breaking off, then they cut to Russell and Norris while still talking about the wing and showing a big piece of it in the middle of the track which Crofty and Brundle point out

and as I said before the note of "pieces" is dramatization. Perez's rear facing camera shows only a single piece of rear wing shedding between T9 and T10, the one pictured in your prior post. **** happens and something gets left on the track all the time, but from then on why are RB not allowed to assume that is the end of the shedding? Other cars lose bits of their car and make debris on the circuit after lap 1 all the time, this does not compel them to pit.

You're not allowed to come to the pits, you must stop immediately on track and bring about a SC. Safety, remember?

[Luscion]

The document says nothing about whether or not they knew the car was shedding carbon fiber. As the video (GIF) posted by AR3-GP shows, Perez rejoined the track on his own accord almost instantly. If you want to make a case here, you need to argue that Red Bull knew the car was a safety hazard - which is a very hard point to make.

Pieces of his broken wing on the track was shown on live, the same feed the teams have access too, The first time they cut to Perez you can see little pieces breaking off, then they cut to Russell and Norris while still talking about the wing and showing a big piece of it in the middle of the track

Which, as i said, is rather likely not a result of Perez driving back, but rather the fact that he did so at higher speeds than was reasonable. And that should absolutely be penalized.

But Perez was already going again before we saw that on the cameras. Remember, the TV feed is delayed, not just for us, but also for the teams. So technically, his actions would have been punishable before the team even realized what was going on. That's what i find unreasonable. Penalize him for driving a damaged car like a maniac instead of being careful - but don't penalize teams for something that is extremely hard to react to.

Chrisc90 said the rest.

Perez was driving pretty slow here when piece of his wing fell off (same corner Norris and Russell come up to with part of it in the middle of the track)

https://imgur.com/a/8TAmalz

[AR3-GP]

Hamilton got front wing damage after hitting the wall in Imola '21. He reversed out of the gravel trap and drove back to the pits in a shower of sparks and a car in a "dangerous condition", no penalty:

[AR3-GP]

Perez completes the final laps of the 2020 Austrian GP with a front wing in a "Dangerous condition". He doesn't stop. He finishes the final 2-3 laps like this.