2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Emag]

Lewis' form looks troubling for the next couple of years. Seems to me like he's hit that performance cliff like Seb and others did. Every weekend Sainz seems like the better bet to me and 80 million cheaper

Completely agree. My biggest issue with the Hamilton signing is that Ferrari are signing two drivers with different driving styles. Charles likes a very pointy front with lots of oversteer, while Hamilton likes a more stable rear with a bit of oversteer. This makes the car development much more difficult. It's what we see now with Sainz/Leclerc. Sainz has a similar car preference to Hamilton. When the car is understeery, Sainz can match, and occasionally beat Charles until Charles adapts his style for the car. When the car is more pointy, Charles excels and Carlos falls back about 2 tenths.

Look at RB. Max and Checo have vastly different styles. Difference there is that (aside from Max being much better), Redbull build/develop the car completely for Max. Unless theres a driver with the same style (e.g. Lando/Charles), the #2 will never even come close.

Carlos would do well alongside Hamilton or Alonzo.

Interesting that you mention Lando. I always assumed his preferences were closer to that of Sainz than Charles.

Noteworthy saying that while Carlos and Lando were teammates at McLaren, they both complained about the car handling in a weird way and none of them liked it, however Carlos was generally more comfortable with it than Lando. How much you can attribute that to experience Carlos had over a rookie Lando at the time, that's hard to tell, but you could partly explain it with them wanting slightly different things from the car.

[Sevach]

I wouldn't put Hamilton's preferences as similar to Sainz, it seems like during the Mercedes years, even years where they dominated, there was a lot of designs not going his way.
I specifically remember that he didn't like the long wheelbase for 2017(which was more or less carried throughout the cycle), and would like a car with a more responsive change of direction, but wind tunnel numbers meant that the engineers ignored his opinion.

People think 2022 was the first time this happened, but it's just the first time it was made a big fuss about it because they weren't winning anymore.

[Seanspeed]

Teams dont design cars around drivers.

[AR3-GP]

Teams dont design cars around drivers.

You are right, most teams don't. However, it should be noted that Mercedes moved the seating position back because of Hamilton. He requested it and Toto Wolff pretty much said they are doing it because he wanted it.

“We’re dealing with the big concept of driver position,” Mercedes motorsport boss Wolff said as per motorsport-total.com. “Obviously that’s one of the most important things.”

Explaining that it’s about “where the driver has the best feeling in the car”, Wolff added: “That’s something that Lewis expresses very clearly.

“And when a seven-time World Champion has an opinion, it’s important to listen to it.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... ng-fix-w14

[S D]

So according to Business F1 Magazine (https://businessf1magazine.com) Adrian Newey has already signed with Ferrari for $105 million over three years. How reliable is this?

Not much. We need to wait for better sources.

The details are way too specific to be just idle rumours

[ringo]

Has any other driver ever released confidential telemetry data?

I think it's fair to say he will have an adjustment period and historically Ferrari have been extremely protective of the brand. Not sure how much leeway is afforded to drivers who criticise the team

Released or taken a photo of a screen with a few numbers? Not exactly espionage.

[ringo]

Lewis' form looks troubling for the next couple of years. Seems to me like he's hit that performance cliff like Seb and others did. Every weekend Sainz seems like the better bet to me and 80 million cheaper

Completely agree. My biggest issue with the Hamilton signing is that Ferrari are signing two drivers with different driving styles. Charles likes a very pointy front with lots of oversteer, while Hamilton likes a more stable rear with a bit of oversteer. This makes the car development much more difficult. It's what we see now with Sainz/Leclerc. Sainz has a similar car preference to Hamilton. When the car is understeery, Sainz can match, and occasionally beat Charles until Charles adapts his style for the car. When the car is more pointy, Charles excels and Carlos falls back about 2 tenths.

Look at RB. Max and Checo have vastly different styles. Difference there is that (aside from Max being much better), Redbull build/develop the car completely for Max. Unless theres a driver with the same style (e.g. Lando/Charles), the #2 will never even come close.

Carlos would do well alongside Hamilton or Alonzo.

This is not exactly correct. Hamilton drives a very strong front end. Meaning the car is oversteering. Same as Leclerc.
A stable rear is not really a balance preference. It's actually a deficiency with any car, over or understeer. Stability is not a grip balance problem; it's more to do with dynamics of a whole lot of things.
No driver is gonna say "hey this rear end is too stable, slacken it up for me". More stability increases the envelop for him whereas it may be of no consequence to someone else who maybe is not braking as late or whatver.

I see no issue next year. Nico, Lewis, Bottas, George all for some reason no issue sharing setup data. Only standouts were Jenson, who did not like oversteer. Hamilton geneally will drive anything but prefers the oversteering car.

[Vanja #66]

Off topic posts have been reported. This is Ferrari team thread, not a place for Hamilton and Max fans to indulge in their endless arguments

[Seanspeed]

So according to Business F1 Magazine (https://businessf1magazine.com) Adrian Newey has already signed with Ferrari for $105 million over three years. How reliable is this?

Not much. We need to wait for better sources.

The details are way too specific to be just idle rumours

People can make up detailed rumors. Something being plausible-sounding does not automatically make it credible.

[S D]

Not much. We need to wait for better sources.

The details are way too specific to be just idle rumours

People can make up detailed rumors. Something being plausible-sounding does not automatically make it credible.

Perhaps, except that there are people involved that are specifically named along with their roles. Therefore, if the rumour is not true then they would probably publish a denial.

[Dunlay]

Lewis' form looks troubling for the next couple of years. Seems to me like he's hit that performance cliff like Seb and others did. Every weekend Sainz seems like the better bet to me and 80 million cheaper

Completely agree. My biggest issue with the Hamilton signing is that Ferrari are signing two drivers with different driving styles. Charles likes a very pointy front with lots of oversteer, while Hamilton likes a more stable rear with a bit of oversteer. This makes the car development much more difficult. It's what we see now with Sainz/Leclerc. Sainz has a similar car preference to Hamilton. When the car is understeery, Sainz can match, and occasionally beat Charles until Charles adapts his style for the car. When the car is more pointy, Charles excels and Carlos falls back about 2 tenths.

Look at RB. Max and Checo have vastly different styles. Difference there is that (aside from Max being much better), Redbull build/develop the car completely for Max. Unless theres a driver with the same style (e.g. Lando/Charles), the #2 will never even come close.

Carlos would do well alongside Hamilton or Alonzo.

This is not exactly correct. Hamilton drives a very strong front end. Meaning the car is oversteering. Same as Leclerc.
A stable rear is not really a balance preference. It's actually a deficiency with any car, over or understeer. Stability is not a grip balance problem; it's more to do with dynamics of a whole lot of things.
No driver is gonna say "hey this rear end is too stable, slacken it up for me". More stability increases the envelop for him whereas it may be of no consequence to someone else who maybe is not braking as late or whatver.

There hasn't ever been a great driver that doesn't prefer a strong front end with a predictable little loose end. They like the car to bite quickly as it helps in braking late and a bit of loose rear end helps in rotating the car faster to then go on throttle quickly. Lewis, Max and Charles prefer this. It's a different story with Pirelli cheesecakes that forces inducing understeer to protect the rears from sliding. So I don't see any issue for car development for Ferrari with Lewis/Charles combo. Is Lewis going to challenge Charles? I don't think so as Charles is a beast on one lap pace and a good racer too.

The hilarious part would be that neither think through the cockpit and rely heavily on race engineers to guide them. Ferrari strategy team is a comedy club. Unless they sort that out, having two strong drivers is still not going to help.

[Sphere3758]

Completely agree. My biggest issue with the Hamilton signing is that Ferrari are signing two drivers with different driving styles. Charles likes a very pointy front with lots of oversteer, while Hamilton likes a more stable rear with a bit of oversteer. This makes the car development much more difficult. It's what we see now with Sainz/Leclerc. Sainz has a similar car preference to Hamilton. When the car is understeery, Sainz can match, and occasionally beat Charles until Charles adapts his style for the car. When the car is more pointy, Charles excels and Carlos falls back about 2 tenths.

Look at RB. Max and Checo have vastly different styles. Difference there is that (aside from Max being much better), Redbull build/develop the car completely for Max. Unless theres a driver with the same style (e.g. Lando/Charles), the #2 will never even come close.

Carlos would do well alongside Hamilton or Alonzo.

This is not exactly correct. Hamilton drives a very strong front end. Meaning the car is oversteering. Same as Leclerc.
A stable rear is not really a balance preference. It's actually a deficiency with any car, over or understeer. Stability is not a grip balance problem; it's more to do with dynamics of a whole lot of things.
No driver is gonna say "hey this rear end is too stable, slacken it up for me". More stability increases the envelop for him whereas it may be of no consequence to someone else who maybe is not braking as late or whatver.

There hasn't ever been a great driver that doesn't prefer a strong front end with a predictable little loose end. They like the car to bite quickly as it helps in braking late and a bit of loose rear end helps in rotating the car faster to then go on throttle quickly. Lewis, Max and Charles prefer this. It's a different story with Pirelli cheesecakes that forces inducing understeer to protect the rears from sliding. So I don't see any issue for car development for Ferrari with Lewis/Charles combo. Is Lewis going to challenge Charles? I don't think so as Charles is a beast on one lap pace and a good racer too.

The hilarious part would be that neither think through the cockpit and rely heavily on race engineers to guide them. Ferrari strategy team is a comedy club. Unless they sort that out, having two strong drivers is still not going to help.

I feel that the importance of “thinking though the cockpit” is highly overstated.
The only thing that really matters if the drivers are capable of predicting their own tyre life accurately,if they are able to maximize and execute a given strategy. Both Lewis and Charles are exceptional at this.

What Ferrari needs is a fast,reliable car that works across most tracks to be challenging for wins/titles. If you have a car 2 tenths faster than the rest, both Lewis and Charles can win most races by just following Pirelli’s recommended strategy.

The proof for this is Max. I don’t even remember the last time he has had to question Redbull strategy, but he has won 50 of the last 75 races.

[Dunlay]

If you have a car 2 tenths faster than the rest, both Lewis and Charles can win most races by just following Pirelli’s recommended strategy.

More races have been won by NOT doing what Pirelli recommends. They say one thing and their tires do another.

Wasn't Charles the fastest driver in 2022 Hungarian GP? Did he win? That's Ferrari. Max never have to challenge his strategists as they have an established track record of getting it absolutely right, close to perfection. You have seen drivers like Sainz, George and even Max in his early years forcing their engineers to change the strategic directions and benefiting from it. More than at any other team, its Ferrari where a driver has to think through his cockpit to not get screwed by their comedy club.

[Fakepivot]

Wasn't Charles the fastest driver in 2022 Hungarian GP? Did he win? That's Ferrari. Max never have to challenge his strategists as they have an established track record of getting it absolutely right, close to perfection. You have seen drivers like Sainz, George and even Max in his early years forcing their engineers to change the strategic directions and benefiting from it. More than at any other team, its Ferrari where a driver has to think through his cockpit to not get screwed by their comedy club.

right lets use what happened like 2 years as an example.

[Sphere3758]

If you have a car 2 tenths faster than the rest, both Lewis and Charles can win most races by just following Pirelli’s recommended strategy.

More races have been won by NOT doing what Pirelli recommends. They say one thing and their tires do another.

Wasn't Charles the fastest driver in 2022 Hungarian GP? Did he win? That's Ferrari. Max never have to challenge his strategists as they have an established track record of getting it absolutely right, close to perfection. You have seen drivers like Sainz, George and even Max in his early years forcing their engineers to change the strategic directions and benefiting from it. More than at any other team, its Ferrari where a driver has to think through his cockpit to not get screwed by their comedy club.

When Carlos and George are behind their teammates in races, they are vocal about strategy because all they care about is finishing ahead of their teammate .

Both Lewis and Charles fundamentally don’t care about beating their teammate, they want to beat their competition from other teams.

Let me put this another way. If you were to give any team the 2 options
1) You get to pick and choose any strategists from across all teams to build your dream team
2) You keep the same strategy team but get a car a tenth faster than everyone on all tracks.

What do you think they go for ?