2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

There’s always option C. Nobody is doing anything and RBR is just making noise, and there really isn’t anything for them to catch up with either.

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And of course we have option D.
FIA does nothing now and we have few interesting races.
RedBull introduces their own version right after the summer break and they nail it as usual.
They go back having a solid advantage over the others.
FIA clamps down flex-wings with a new TD in October.

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Exactly!

[SiLo]

Funny that they are complaining about the thing they have probably been best on the grid at doing for years. The RB wing still moves, maybe a tad less but there is still a good amount of flex there. Wouldn't surprise me if this is just some standard F1 politics.

[Paa]

Funny that they are complaining about the thing they have probably been best on the grid at doing for years. The RB wing still moves, maybe a tad less but there is still a good amount of flex there. Wouldn't surprise me if this is just some standard F1 politics.

It makes sense if you think about it.
RedBull had lot of diplomatic trouble over flexi wings during the last 10 years and also it is an advantage that is easy to lose over a TD. So no wonder they did not want to open this can of worms while having a comfortable advantage over the competition so they didn't develop into this direction. They could gain enough so far by fiddling with the floor.

It is also understandable from the other team's perspective who were more desperate to gain performance and also had less to lose so they started developing the good-old flexi concepts.

Now Red Bull would like to check with FIA whether the game is really on before allocating resources into that direction.
I guess they would be happier if this would be closed now as probably there are no long-term potential in this, knowing that active aero is coming in 2026. So they would need to develop a solution for 1 - 1.5 years max.

[venkyhere]

Being a noob with aero, I want to ask a simple question :

What is "flexi-wing" ?
- at higher speeds, the AoA of a few (or all) the 3-step or 4-step front wing elements reduces drastically
Is the above correct ?

If yes, what is the benefit ?
- lower drag
- differently conditioned flow hitting the keel and floor entrances, changing the aero balance dynamically
- both above

[SiLo]

Being a noob with aero, I want to ask a simple question :

What is "flexi-wing" ?
- at higher speeds, the AoA of a few (or all) the 3-step or 4-step front wing elements reduces drastically
Is the above correct ?

If yes, what is the benefit ?
- lower drag
- differently conditioned flow hitting the keel and floor entrances, changing the aero balance dynamically
- both above

Yes to all of your points.

[SiLo]

Funny that they are complaining about the thing they have probably been best on the grid at doing for years. The RB wing still moves, maybe a tad less but there is still a good amount of flex there. Wouldn't surprise me if this is just some standard F1 politics.

It makes sense if you think about it.
RedBull had lot of diplomatic trouble over flexi wings during the last 10 years and also it is an advantage that is easy to lose over a TD. So no wonder they did not want to open this can of worms while having a comfortable advantage over the competition so they didn't develop into this direction. They could gain enough so far by fiddling with the floor.

It is also understandable from the other team's perspective who were more desperate to gain performance and also had less to lose so they started developing the good-old flexi concepts.

Now Red Bull would like to check with FIA whether the game is really on before allocating resources into that direction.
I guess they would be happier if this would be closed now as probably there are no long-term potential in this, knowing that active aero is coming in 2026. So they would need to develop a solution for 1 - 1.5 years max.

Yeah I think this is most likely. RB don't appear to be as extreme as the other teams, and want to make noise about it to either get rules amended, or know they can also follow the same route.

[Rikhart]

But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article says

so I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.

I don't think the onboard cameras are a good way of measuring flex. Because they are not just flexing the elements of the wing down but the whole front wing structure can deform and fold.

They would have no benefit to raising it as an issue if they were exploiting this area as much as rivals are, but according to the media RB have been repeatedly raising it since Imola with respect to especially McLaren, lesser extent Ferrari. Then Merc with the new wing also does it. if they were exploiting this area just as much as others I can't think why they would be so keen to get the rule changed?

However importantly there is precedent even under budget cap for this to be rapidly changed if the rules are being exploited as we saw in 2023 with TD018 crippling AMR

Fair point, but onboard cameras are the tool by which everyone is saying that McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes front wing are bending, and by these footage I can't see a big difference with RB's wing...maybe teams are able to measure flexing with other tools ? for example, how is the FIA measuring flexing when the car is moving ?

You can't see a big difference? Really? Look at this:

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 4#p1222094

[F1Schu]

To be honest the redbull wing moves just as much as the Ferrari does.... Quite funny that the team most known to exploit this is accusing the others now xD
Still remember them continually saying their wing didn't flex despite all the youtube videos clearly showing it....ironic.

[organic]

I don't think the videos measuring the flex accurately describe how much each wing is deforming. So trying to compare teams from the videos is not going to be that effective

[Cs98]

I don't think the videos measuring the flex accurately describe how much each wing is deforming. So trying to compare teams from the videos is not going to be that effective

It was effective enough in 2021 and 2023.

[dialtone]

Throughout the years with the flexi-wing TDs it has never been about whether or not the wing flexes, it's always been to which degree it flexes. RB thinks that there are teams that are straying over that line again, so they want clarification on how to best proceed. Either the FIA tightens the regulations again, best case for RB, or they say that it is okay and RB will need to re-design its FW to flex more. Either way they gain something.

There’s always option C. Nobody is doing anything and RBR is just making noise, and there really isn’t anything for them to catch up with either.

What's the upside in wasting your time on an FIA query if there is no possible outcome that benefits you? You are thinking like a fan, not an F1 team.

Every car has something borderline, even if it’s not the flexi wing, maybe something else will be found or whatever flexi they have will need to be reduced. Furthermore this can build political credit by faking outrage over this perceived unfair rule application.

Red Bull has made plenty of various kinds of noises this year, so any question as to the why is better answered by the team.

[chrisc90]

3 races for checo to prove himself?

[organic]

3 races for checo to prove himself?

Ah it's just because we have a triple header, no? I doubt he means it's anything contract related

[Wouter]

3 races for checo to prove himself?

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Ah it's just because we have a triple header, no? I doubt he means it's anything contract related

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Indeed. Marko talks about how he has been performing poorly lately and that Perez can now show for three races (in a row)
that he is actually much better (which I highly doubt).

[Dunlay]

3 races for checo to prove himself?

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Ah it's just because we have a triple header, no? I doubt he means it's anything contract related

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Indeed. Marko talks about how he has been performing poorly lately and that Perez can now show for three races (in a row)
that he is actually much better (which I highly doubt).

The field being so tightly packed, the best Perez can hope is a 10th place finish when all other drivers from McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, Alonoso ans Tsunoda finish races without events. Luckiest situations can get him a 6th. In qualifying, I doubt if can ever get into Q1 this year again. If Red Bull can bring half a second upgrade over the field, then he has better prospects.